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| Does God exist? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 19 2006, 12:46 PM (1,365 Views) | |
| Denovissimus | Dec 21 2006, 04:59 PM Post #41 |
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Immortal Heretic
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I want to reply, and I will, but I also want to respond, particularly to Darelle, but for now I will post this cause I thought it was interesting and I would do it if I had a camera to film myself! The Blasphemy Challenge Added: Dec 21st, 2006 7:39 AM Regis Nicoll Freelance Writer, Speaker, Worldview Teacher, Men's Ministry Leader Would you trade your soul for a DVD? Well, over one hundred young people (and counting) have. A group calling itself the "Rational Response Squad" is inviting people (mainly teens) to blaspheme the Holy Spirit and thereby commit the "unpardonable sin." If you are among the first 1001 people to declare "I deny the Holy Spirit" and post your denial on YouTube, you, too, will receive the free DVD, "The God Who Wasn't There." Now on one hand, whatever naughtiness these folks think they're committing in their cheeky videos, they're not blaspheming the Holy Spirit. To do that requires an admission of supernaturalism--a definite no-no to free-thinking rationalists like the RRS. You see, according to Scripture, the "unpardonable sin" is to experience the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit and attribute it to another supernatural agent: Satan. On the other hand, this is a very clever ploy by the RRS. They realize that once someone has jumped off this "cliff" they can't change their mind as they plunge down the abyss. If you're convinced that regardless of later convictions you are beyond forgiveness, your only choice is the full court press of godless rationalism. Disturbingly, the RRS reports that the Blasphemy Challenge is targeting 25 websites geared to teens including Xanga, Friendster, Boy Scout Trail, Tiger Beat, Teen Magazine, YM, CosmoGirl! and Seventeen. Their aim: to de-program kids who have been indoctrinated from birth to believe in God, in general, and Christianity in particular. In the words of RRS, "If we talked about religion the same way we talk about science, history or other fields involving truth claims, dogma would wither in the light." They may be on to something. If religion and, say, evolutionary science were held to the same standards of testability and falsifiablity, dogma would wither--especially that lacking the explanatory power for the diversity and complexity of life, not to mention existence itself, and the great metaphysical questions of meaning and purpose. |
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| la anaconda de chocolatee | Dec 21 2006, 08:45 PM Post #42 |
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Skittle Skank
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I love the Rational Response Squad, they are actually a radio show. They are on my friends list on Myspace. |
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| Noname | Dec 21 2006, 10:15 PM Post #43 |
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Glorious Witch
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People need something to believe in. I would never acutally say that God does not exist on Youtube it is irrational. There is a part of me which is very Christian, I don't know why it just it. Humanity in general have to find a way to explain how we were put on this planet. We're like children when it comes to such questions. We think that by just saying there is an all powerful being that put us here then that solves it. But there is a part of me who wants the science point of view, and I suppose that's was the part that was just speaking.
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| Julesy | Dec 22 2006, 12:39 AM Post #44 |
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deliciously domestic
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there is no science behind beliefs or ideas, therefore they only exist in ones mind. |
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| Kehlili | Dec 22 2006, 12:47 AM Post #45 |
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Fuck Squash!
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I agree we need to believe in something, we need order in our lives. I just disagree that it has to be a god. For all I care, believe in the turkey sandwhich if it gets ya through the day! Beliefs serve to help us find meaning and fullfillment in a meaningless world. If the turkey sandwich does that, well then technically its just as relavent to god haha Like Jules said beliefs are subjective which is why I find organized religion irrelavent when it comes to them lol I don't need a priest to tell me what I believe! |
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| Julesy | Dec 22 2006, 12:56 AM Post #46 |
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deliciously domestic
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Im with ya there Kelly. Like I said before, I was born and raised Catholic(booo!)and I just use its teachings as a guideline/outline on how to live my life.Not all retardo fanatical and pious-like. It works for me. |
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| la anaconda de chocolatee | Dec 22 2006, 03:47 AM Post #47 |
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Skittle Skank
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what is irrational about saying that god DOES NOT EXIST? It is irrational, in my opinion, to say that he does exist when there is NO PROOF WHATSOEVER that a higher being does in fact exist. And whereas some and maybe most people need a higher power to believe in, again, NOT ALL OF US DO! So please stop saying that. Oh wait, I do need something to believe in. I believe in myself, therefore I dont need to believe in a god. I give myself the credit for all the good, bad and ugly throughout my life and I believe in myself and have faith in myself to get through the hardships. |
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| Noname | Dec 22 2006, 01:20 PM Post #48 |
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Glorious Witch
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I am glad I picked such a controversial topic because it seems that we are think the same way. I guess I NEED SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN! I want to know that after all this hate and injustice, cruelty and persecution that you can go to a place where there is nothing but peace and happiness. |
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| Noname | Dec 22 2006, 01:25 PM Post #49 |
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Glorious Witch
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But the Lord said otherwise and made a family member rightfully do it instead. You guys may not believe in Him, but He works His way into your everyday speaking. Take Jesse for exapple (see above). I know why. We have been bombarded with the beleif that God is real and that there is a Hevan and Hell that although we may not believe in Him they sayings that most people used that is associated with God we still use to express ourselves. |
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| Denovissimus | Dec 22 2006, 05:54 PM Post #50 |
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Immortal Heretic
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Before I add any responses, I would just like to post my views on the original topic of debate, Does God Exist? In short, I believe that a force which for lack of a better term can be called "god" does exist. But not in the manner we are accustomed to. Firstly, I really do not like the term "god" because of everything it alludes to. It conjures images of a secular anthrmorphic god too human like to really satisfy the requirements and expectations of a true force and source of life. I do not believe in the notion of a god as exemplified by the three major dominant monotheistic religions of today - Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. The Torah, The Bible, and The Koran are simply interpretations and stories, some true most false. What this "god" "force" is to me is an all encompassing energy which lives and flows through every iota of existance. "God" is everywhere, because "God" is progression, the progression of an energy force which cannot be contained or explained by current conventional thinking, be it scientific or religious. The gaps between science and relgion can be bridged though, and once one learns to bridge those gaps they can begin to see the true essence and power of what this god force is. That bridge I tend to refer to as spirituality. If you live in terms of spirit...not the facts of science or the faith of religion...but in terms of true spirit, you don't need facts or faith because what IS, just IS. There is no dispute, and the construct and mechanism of what IS is truely magnifiant. Our spiritual natures though have for centuries been suppressed. First by the dictates of religion then the "rationales" of science. Then in their ensuing clashes. The spirit is not encouraged to be free, to truely LIVE and to explore and to question and to learn. No, humans have been breed to seek and find immediate answers, so that certain structures and control mechanism can be put in place to stifle our free flowing nature. We are meant to flow freely, freely with the energy and power of the god force. Now does "god" have a consious? A personality? A form? Yes and no. No in that "god" does not have a singular consious, personality, or form. Yes in that that consious, personality, and form is a culmination of all that comprise every living thing in this universe. God is all. But as God can be love, God can be hate too. Because we have introduced hate into God. We have tainted that immortal spirit by our ignorance, our prejudge. But I don't place the blame 100% on humans. As I mentioned earlier, this is the way humans were breed, by outside forces. Our spiritual natures have been compromised and suppressed by outside forces. You ask if God exists, then you must ask if the Devil exists as well. One would have to understand the basic concept of duality to comprehend the balance there is which governs our universe. There are two sides. There has to be. Without an opposing force, then can be no true progression, and the god force is about progression. The true path to godhood, to the ultimate breakthrough and ascension and reunification to the ALL is in understanding how to walk the line between the two, to join them even. When I pray to "god" I don't do it literally. Words do form, from my lips and in my mind, but its the energy in those prayers which I am truely forming. That is what the "miracle of prayer" is, a concentrated focus upon one thing to achieve, all that energy focused like a laser beam. It can happen, has happened, and the more who contribute to it the greater chances of its realization. Too much bloodshed and loss, debate and dilemna, have been caused in trying to find the answer to the question of "Is there a god?" Those who believe they have that answer have tried to enforce that answer upon others. I say forget that question. You will never know or understand god until you know and understand god's works. Understand how life works, understand the nature of the immortal spirit...we are energy, and even science states that energy does not die, it changes form. Understand the hows, not the whys. The more knowledge you gain, the more you question and question the closer to god you will get. It has come to the point in my life where I don't need to ask that question anymore, is there a god? I know there is. I don't need to see it because I feel it. And I don't need it filtered by the falsehoods of religions. They will cloud it, mask it, and prevent you from advancing spirituality. God does not want or need religion, and God is already everywhere in science, they are just too stubborn and limited to realize it. I suppose I could go on at length but I suppose I've made my point in regards to how I view that question. |
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| Julesy | Dec 22 2006, 11:19 PM Post #51 |
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deliciously domestic
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God is a belief. Not a force. |
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| Denovissimus | Dec 22 2006, 11:45 PM Post #52 |
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Immortal Heretic
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No, the human conception of "god" is a belief. The actual composition, nature, and being of the TRUE "god" is a force, a power, an energy. One has to stop thinking within the boundaries of religion, and what religion defines god to be. Disassociate yourself from those mental trappings, and then you can begin to understand "force" over "belief". |
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| Julesy | Dec 22 2006, 11:56 PM Post #53 |
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deliciously domestic
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well you can "believe" in your force when someone young dies. |
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| Denovissimus | Dec 23 2006, 03:11 AM Post #54 |
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Immortal Heretic
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What does someone young dying have to do with anything? Life and Death are a part of the force, its a process, a recyling of sorts, of the energy which comprises the soul. In order for the soul to proceed, its casing must perish. Our bodies our but vessels which wither and die, which are suseptible to disease and illness. It expires and is vulnurable. The soul is immortal, it lives on, it changes form when this body dies. When a person dies, young or old, I say bless them, for they are free. Fare thee well on your soul journey and I pray that advance rather than regress. |
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| Sexy Zombie | Dec 23 2006, 05:15 AM Post #55 |
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Poosie Liquor
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Every living thing has an energy and electromagnetic field to a degree and science proves that energy never dies it just changes form. This energy is what he's talking about. Force is energy and energy is not a personality, it has no thoughts, no emotion, and it has no plans it just is. Even atheists cannot deny this kind of energy for it can be proven by science that it is there. |
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| Julesy | Dec 23 2006, 03:24 PM Post #56 |
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deliciously domestic
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sorry, i was drunk when i posted. please exclude that last post of min; |
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| Jane | Dec 23 2006, 05:22 PM Post #57 |
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Board Bitch!
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Alcohol normally makes us think "outside the box!" Hate that phrase but can't think of a better one. Did anyone see the episode of 30 days where the athiest went to live with a christian family. Some interesting stats in there. Like atheists are hated more in America than Muslims or homosexuals! I'd never thought about how religion is imposed on you in the US. Like even the money you spend has "in god we trust" on it. The atheist was trying to make the point what if it said "God does not exist" on it? That wouldn't be right either because views should not be imposed on people like that. Over half of American's would not vote for a President who didn't believe in God. And the church service they attended was all about spreading the message to the whole world and converting everyone to their faith. The very opposite of tolerance, and a great way to create conflict. Well done! The preachers in those sort of churches aren't preachers at all. They are showmen. They are very good at rousing people, but you have to remember they are very talented speakers they are not god. I have more to say on this on a personal level but I'll say it in a further post! |
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| la anaconda de chocolatee | Dec 23 2006, 06:30 PM Post #58 |
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Skittle Skank
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Jane I want to see that episode! I have seen that show once or twice before, but I havent seen that one. |
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| Jane | Dec 23 2006, 10:15 PM Post #59 |
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Board Bitch!
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It was good Michele
:D Personally I don't have a need to believe in God to get me through life. I was brought up believing although my parent's weren't really religious, my grandparents were. I went to Sunday school from the age of about 3! Mainly I wanted to go because we lived 2 doors down from a chapel and I saw the other kids walking past my house to get there so I asked to go! I did believe what they told me. I thought God was always watching. When my grandad died when I was 9 I believed he was watching too, and I had many conversations with him in my head after he died. Losing this belief was a gradual thing. At 8 years old I had a friend who was a Jehovah's Witness, I listened to her views but they were just too extreme for me. Not everything she said made any sense. Plus she had no presents at christmas which at the time I thought was the worst thing in the world! What a sick religion! I once went to her house for a meal and her father prayed before we ate! That was weird to me. Anyway to progress as a fifteen year old I was horrified when I found out my best friend's dad was an athiest. I imagined him getting struck by lightning or something for daring not to believe. But now I suppose I'd have to describe myself as an athiest myself. I am open to new evidence and new ideas, but with everything I've learned in life and through education so far I see more evidence against there being a God than for one. By the time my mum died when I was 24 I was already not believing in a God. But at that time my thoughts changed so that if he did exist I hated him anyway! I know now my thinking was rational and healthy for me. I think I got through that episode of my life better than religious people do. Religious people don't say goodbye properly because they think they will see them again. Maybe I will see her again but I'm not sure we would recognise each other as such, we'd be transformed and different to how we are now. We aren't meant to stay the same after death, families don't stay together in this fictional heaven, we don't sit around all day eating and drinking and watching tv! We'd get bored anyway if that was the case. Religious people can't understand how we can be happy in life if we think there is nothing after. I was immensly happy to think of my mum at peace and feeling nothing. I actually do believe we have a soul, although I don't think what happens when we die is like most people imagine, and certainly not heaven and hell. But at that time I was exploring my beliefs and I remember feeling a sense of peace if there was nothing after, because if you live on....especially if my mum's soul was out there somewhere wouldn't she be worried about her family, and be wanting to look after us and be hurting because she couldn't be with us any more? In a way the nothingness was better. The way I live my life, well if there as a heaven I would still expect to get in whether I believe in God or not. Is God really so vain he needs all this acknowledgment and adoration from us? If he is I want nothing to do with him anyway! I do the best I can in this life because this is all we have for all I know. What is the point in living this life being pious and miserable and thinking it doesn't matter because you are going to heaven after? Heaven should be here now. And if your life isn't a good and happy one, if you're not living the way you want to live, surrounded by the people you want to be with do your best to make it so. I have faith in other people and in myself. I have love in my heart and a spring in my step! Make your own miracles, live by your own rules for they are likely to be as good as any commandments. Try not to hurt anyone, especially yourselves. I'm starting to sound like Jerry Springer lol!! Anyway this concludes my sermon of the day! |
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| la anaconda de chocolatee | Dec 24 2006, 02:51 PM Post #60 |
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Skittle Skank
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The way I live my life, well if there as a heaven I would still expect to get in whether I believe in God or not. Is God really so vain he needs all this acknowledgment and adoration from us? If he is I want nothing to do with him anyway! That is exactly how I feel Jane! |
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