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| British Webbing Blancoed 1914-18? | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 17 2005, 12:54 AM (4,811 Views) | |
| Rickachae | Dec 17 2005, 12:54 AM Post #1 |
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Musketier
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What do we know about Blanco during the war? Did it only exist in liquid form? Were there other colors beside light green? Was it just a thing for the regulars? By the end of the war, was it commonly used at the front? Are there great dangers in generalizing about its use? Does it come down to finding out what a specific battalion did when trying to do an accurate reconstruction of ‘o8 WE? Anybody have chapter and versus on this incredibly riveting topic? Jim Shea |
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| T. J. Shackleton | Dec 17 2005, 07:16 AM Post #2 |
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Unteroffizier
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Jim, I did some research on this subject. I looked at original WWI pieces that were not reissued. I also researched the regulations and period books and manuals. While the following should not be taken for the only way, this is what I found. Most if not all of the blancoed webbing I examened was in the light green (103) shade. This is hard to pick out in photos as it is close to the natural khaki. Blanco was required, as per regulations, to ALL units who were issued P-08 . Of course the regulars and the guards were more strict about this. I noticed it was applyed to the outside facing area of the webbing only. (avoids marks on the uniform.) The blanko was issued in a dry form. I have seen a powder and in pressed cakes. You mixed with water and applyed with a toothbrush or rag. It has great staying power. But as Chapell states in his book" reaplying could be fustrating" as it makes the webbing somewhat watedproof. Tommys Packfillers has some nice repro blanco wraping paper. Finding 103 shade blanco is a bit of a task. the powder and cakes are rare. (due to use I supose) I found some newly made of that shade in a paste form that matches the original perfectly. The use of blanco on replacement items issued in the field is up to conjector. When out of the line you cleaned and mantained your kit the best you could and blanco was an issue item. Usally carried with a rag in the helve head carrier. So I feel that after the initial applicaton the touch up and continued usage was up to the whim of the Officer/ NCO. But most British NCO's I think could be quoted as saying "Clean and colour that webbing My lad or your be on report!"  T. J. Shackleton |
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| tmattimore | Dec 17 2005, 09:17 AM Post #3 |
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Vize-Feldwebel
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The very first nco turned to the very first recruit and said "polish that rock, wash your feet and shine those sandals or you will be digging latrines until the dinousaurs come back" :angry: . |
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Fritz Sohlennagel AKA Tom Mattimore AKA Tommy shoes The most important item of a soldiers equipment is his knapsack so that he may carry an extra pair of shoes and half soles" Sir Arthur Wellesly | |
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| QMSwalrus | Dec 17 2005, 09:28 AM Post #4 |
Feldwebelleutnant
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Blanco originally existed as cakes of white pipeclay (hence the name and the nickname "Blanco" to men with the surname "White") With the introduction of the 1908 pattern cotton web, coloured blancos were introduced, these were still in the form of a cake (not a 'green compact' of powder, but a solid cast(?) block), about the size of an ice-hockey puck, slightly concave at the top and with the product name embossed. Blanco was supplied in a range of colours, however, the more popular colours seem to have been pale green or a tan colour approximating that of new webbing, this allows a uniform colour (when properly allpied) and fills the thread of the web,giving a showerproof effect, delaying deterioration of the equipment. By the introduction of 1937 pattern webbing, the range of colours had expanded further, covering all shaded from white to 'Jungle Green' and RAF Blue. During the 'National Service Era" (1946-60) and slightly later (to about the late 1960s / early 1970s) Blanco was replaced by a tinned jelly like variant called "Fleet" (and a similar "webbing cleaner" made be Carr, Day and Martin); although slightly easier to use, this was more waterproof than conventional Blanco (and therefore more difficult to re-apply/remove). To apply blanco, the webbing should be stripped down and all removable brass taken off (now is the time to clean the brass thoroughly, trying not to get any metalpolish onto the web -use a button stick and paper as masks); the webbing is then scrubbed with clean water until the surface is thoroughly soaked (immersion in warm water makes this easier, but takes longer to dry); a little water is dropped into the concavoty on top of the Blanco block and allowed to stand for a couple of minutes; a small, stiff brush (such as a large toothbrush) is wetted in a mug or tin of clean water and pressed lightlyinto the surface of the block and the material tranfered onto the brush is worked firmly into the surface of the webbing. The brush must be kept wet (as must the surface of the block), work the Blanco in, in small circles trying to ensure as even a coat as possible; when completely coated the webbing should be set aside to dry thoroughly. Once dry, brush the webbing firmly with a clean stiff brush (a scrubbing is fine), this has two purposes, first to remove the excess material (which would dissolve in the first rain and cover the wearer's uniform) and to give a more uniform finish to the webbing. At this point any Blanco on brasses may be removed by scaping it off and the brasses will respond to light polishing; reassemble equipment. Everyone I have known who has used 'block Blanco' kept it in a watertight tin as it prevented other items becoming coated with Blanco (and the damp Blanco from becoming contaminated by fluff, bits, dirt etc. and protected the Blanco from breaking (or, if it did, contained the bits to allow it still to be used) - beware, Blanco can go mouldy. It seems likely that any re-Blancoing would be carried out when the battalion was out 'on rest'. Any Help? Tom T.J, If I may make one minor correction:
that's more likely to be: "...you'll be on a charge!" or "...I'll crime you!..." As I say,just a minor point. Regards Tom T |
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The truth is out there - The lies are in your head (Terry Pratchett - "Hogfather") | |
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| QMSwalrus | Dec 17 2005, 09:34 AM Post #5 |
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Feldwebelleutnant
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Nah! the first order was "Take that beach - and don't come back until you can breathe air!" 
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The truth is out there - The lies are in your head (Terry Pratchett - "Hogfather") | |
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| Joe Sweeney | Dec 17 2005, 11:26 AM Post #6 |
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Sergeant
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When Web was first issued it was stipulated that only the approved cleaner would be used. This was manufactured by ME and company and not officially called BLANCO (In vernacular it might have been). This cleaner came in a tube roughly 2"diameter and 5" high. It was powder (usually caked solid now) and the same color as the Khaki web. Oddly this stuff was not issue and had to be purchased either by individuals or through unit funds. The only cleaning material that could be indented for Web was a few types of soap. The familar BLANCO cakes manufactured by Jo's Pickering (BLANCO was actually trademark name for his product) were available before, during and after the war. I don't know which color ranges were availble but light green and Khaki were available in the WWI era. I have about 2 dozens unit standing orders (not an extensive collection) from 1910 through 1914. None except the Irish Guards mentions blanco and then it is in specific reference to requiring Blanco pots as a Regimental necessity for new recruits. This was for the Slade Wallace Equipment and would be purchased once through Regimental funds then the soldier was responsible for upkeep. As Tom pointed out blancoing leather white was a fairly old practice. The BLANCO cakes were only available commercially. No where and at no time through any of the Ordnance or Quartermaster records is Blanco ever mentioned before or during the war (not sure after). I believe that BLANCO was used, not as extensively as people think. You'd have to delve into War diaries etc to get a feel about how often it was used. I would suggest that you might go to the online Canadian war diaries (all are online and this include WD to British units that at times were attached). Having gone through quite a few I never found any references to war time blancoing of web (although I bet you will find references on occasion if one has the patience to look). However, once the war is over and the units are on the March to Germany blancoing Web is mentioned all the time. So either in the war it was thought not important either to blanco or mention the fact of blancoing. Hope this helps Joe Sweeney |
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| QMSwalrus | Dec 18 2005, 08:53 AM Post #7 |
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Feldwebelleutnant
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Joe, Was the ME 'web cleaner' available after the war or when the 1937 web became available? Was the ME cleaner supplied as a powder or a "Green compact" (powder pressed into a block without further processing)? The problem is that, over time, compacts break down into the base powder and may 'clog' again, losing the original form. I know that when I was regularly cleaning webbing, the only stuff available was "Fleet".
Presumably the commercial name wouldn't be used (although 'Blanco' became a 'generic name' in the same way that 'Hoover' did and 'Google' has), and if it was not considered necessary as a preservative for the equipment, then I would assume that the 'powers that be' would not have allocated transport space to ship it to the war zone. Regards Tom |
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The truth is out there - The lies are in your head (Terry Pratchett - "Hogfather") | |
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| Joe Sweeney | Dec 18 2005, 11:45 AM Post #8 |
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Sergeant
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Tom, Don't know how long the ME cleaner was available. Most of my records go into the late 20's and only very little is mentioned of this cleaner except pre-war. The ME cleaner came in compressed powder drab/khaki in color. Or that's the only color I've seen in the tube and since the tube doesn't specify color this maybe a product of time. Having never actually used this stuff I don't know how it would affect the appearance of the web. All articles of cleaner and presevatives are found in part 9A of the "PV for Stores" No mention is made of anything similar to any type of blanco type media except in the 1909 version the Best English "Whitening" was available in lumps. The 1915 version is silent as are the ammending AO's and GRO's. Also the Quartermaster General of the BEF published GRO's listing what was available and the only authorized media for cleaning web found in over 5000 published GRO's from Aug 1914 through Dec 1918 was soda for cleaning web. This soda is found in the PV. There were other avenues for acquiring blanco as the EFC etc were not constrained to only carrying PV items. So I think whether or not to blanco is very subjective. It was available and was done. My opinion is probably not as often as one might think expecially during the war. Shades would be light green or drab. Joe Sweeney |
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| Rickachae | Dec 25 2005, 08:59 AM Post #9 |
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Musketier
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Thanks to everyone for their responses. Out of, curiosity-what is the trend in the GWA to deal with the yellow repro '08 gear? |
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| Baldrick | Mar 4 2007, 09:01 PM Post #10 |
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Private
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Yellow Repop '08 webbing? Yikes! where'd you see that??? 
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| Guyg13 | Mar 5 2007, 02:49 PM Post #11 |
Sergeant
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Mine certainly isn't yellow...... |
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"The most important thing to remember about drunks is that drunks are far more intelligent than non-drunks. They spend a lot of time talking in pubs, unlike workaholics who concentrate on their careers and ambitions, who never develop their higher spiritual values, who never explore the insides of their head like a drunk does." ~ Shane McGowan | |
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| bog rat 8555 | Mar 6 2007, 11:39 AM Post #12 |
Vize-Feldwebel
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The stuff from WPG is kind of light--though I'm not sure it's "yellow". John Adams Irish Guards |
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| IG SRGT TJ 4593 | Mar 6 2007, 03:21 PM Post #13 |
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Corporal
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I never bothered to "Blanko" my webbing until I went on my Mons trip. I knew our counterparts "across the pond" were rather particular about being "Spit and polished." So, it was a case of the old "when in Rome, do as the Romans do."  I tried the "hockey puck" Blanko that Jerry Lee has on WPG. It was sent to me by Kevin M. After reading the correct description of "how to apply" it from TJ Shackleton above I could see how it would have worked. In my case, it turned in a light shade of green. I was not convinced that this was correct.  I had borrowed a uniform for my brother to go to France with me. In this kit was a tube of Blanko. I applied this also. The webbing then became a darker green. (It looked a bit) like the parimeter of this page.  Be sure to get the excess off with a dry scrubbing brush. Some of us who didn't (no names mentioned) looked a bit out if charactor when our excess blanco washed off in the rain. LOL Our webbing was good and water proof but our uniforms were a bit stained. I haven't blankoed it since and don't plan to anytime soon.  Steve 4593 |
| IG SGT TJ 4593 | |
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| Baldrick | Mar 6 2007, 11:22 PM Post #14 |
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Private
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A bit of a khaki shading is the closest I've seen to "yellow" in repop 08 gear. I've never heard of or seen anything so "yellow" that the GWA might take notice or issue with it. As for the variation in the webbing colour in the new gear, it seems the variation in the originals was sufficient for the whole Blanko system to be applied to bring uniformity to the webbing's appearence, at least for parade ground troops. If nothing else colourwise, the new stuff looks so much better than my original ate up stuff I'm wearing now.
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| Rickachae1 | Apr 18 2007, 06:56 PM Post #15 |
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Private
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The WE'08 that was first reproduced in a substantial volume was done close to ten years ago by Harlan Glenn (King and Country-RIP). The drab color it is made from is of a distinctly yellow or golden shade when new. |
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| sanitaeter | Apr 29 2007, 06:43 PM Post #16 |
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Vize-Feldwebel
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Are there any GWA units using the P-08 web gear that uses Blanco? What shade? Where do you get it? Peter |
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| bog rat 8555 | Apr 29 2007, 07:44 PM Post #17 |
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Vize-Feldwebel
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I got a "hockey-puck" block from What Price Glory--the light green shade--but I think he has since run out of them. 8555 John Adams Irish Guards |
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| 42nd_CEF_RHC | Sep 7 2007, 07:08 AM Post #18 |
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Sergeant
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More on Blanco, Fellows, in researching the 42nd Canadian Battalion, I went through the War Diaries of the following units which are on-line through the Canadian National Archives: - Canadian Corps Ordnance - 3rd Canadian Division (Divisional and Ordnance) - 7th Canadian Infantry Brigade (Brigade) - 42nd Battalion There was not a single mention of Blanco. In the Canadian Corps Ordnance diary there are long lists of items that could be indented for, everything from uniform components to horseshoes and soap. No mention of anything like equipment preservative or blanco. We are using something a little bit different as we have learned from our WW2 group. Find your favorite shade of green of household flat latex paint. Mix 50/50 with water or 60/40 depending on how it works out. Apply to webbing equipment. Watered down enough it will work into the webbing and not set up in layers. Sounds Highly Dubious - Works Great and the finish matches most of my green shaded original P-08 that is light green in color. |
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A/Cpl. Richard Moncrief #15 Platoon/D Coy./42nd Canadian Battalion (Royal Highlanders of Canada) | |
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| QMSwalrus | Sep 7 2007, 09:02 AM Post #19 |
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Feldwebelleutnant
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"...We are using something a little bit different ... Find your favorite shade of green of household flat latex paint...Apply to webbing equipment. Watered down enough it will work into the webbing and not set up in layers. Sounds Highly Dubious - Works Great and the finish matches most of my green shaded original P-08 that is light green in color. .." It also cannot be soeasily cleand and effectively reduces the retail value of the kit to zero. The secret to avoid heavy layers of blanco is simple - scrub the webbing (ather than just plastering more on). Tom (in London) [Who used to have to wear white '37 patt belt and gaiters in the Sea Cadets back in the '60s) |
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The truth is out there - The lies are in your head (Terry Pratchett - "Hogfather") | |
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| 42nd_CEF_RHC | Sep 7 2007, 10:30 AM Post #20 |
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Sergeant
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Hello Tom, A. I did mean this for repro gear that most of us now use. I would never advocate slapping paint on original kit. B. Trying to find a source for original blanco that is a color we were happy with was proving impossible. C. In terms of scrubbing, understood, but out intent was to change the color of the webbing through a process that was akin to applying blanco, not adding a 10mm think coat of acrylic latex to out webbing. Our experience with all of this came from our WW2 Canadian circles were there were some standing orders on the 3rd Canadian Division anyway to paint their gear with vehicle paint. I will try to find the source. The point is that when we started to play with all of this the results were favorable even to my an*l-retentive mind about all of this. We started cutting down houshold paints with water to almost a dye state and it worked out quite well. Short of a source of fresh light green blanco, this was the best we could come up with. As Joe mentioned, and as I tend to agree with in my mind, blanco was probably not as common during the war as before and after. So we will probably do this once and leave it alone for the next several events. I will post some photos as I desecrate a set of repro gear this weekend. Cheers! |
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A/Cpl. Richard Moncrief #15 Platoon/D Coy./42nd Canadian Battalion (Royal Highlanders of Canada) | |
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1:29 PM Jun 19