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Sidebar: The Entertainment Industry
Topic Started: Oct 5 2006, 11:19 PM (1,859 Views)
TomRK1089
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The main issue here is: how does one quantify the work done by entertainment professionals? Obviously not all actors are of the same calibre. And how would film studios pay for production? What would be the best way to ensure fair salaries while not limiting entertainment?
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Zephir
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Also, what of theme parks and the like? TV isn't the only entertainment medium.
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harmony_kh_kairi
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This actually should cover all manner of tourism since tourism in itself in an entertainment. Then you start looking at what all the tourism industry covers and you have a huge amount of material to cover. I'll make sure nothing is left out since I live in a state which livelihood is run by the tourism industry. That falls in on itself and we're screwed down here.
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Assassin
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Heres a link to a debate about the video games industry on RevLeft that I linked ages ago in the Articles and Posts thread that I think is quite relevant here. The system the original poster proposed sounded workable: RevLeft video games debate
"Shoot, coward, you will only kill a man." - Che Guevera

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harmony_kh_kairi
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Oct 6 2006, 05:00 AM
Heres a link to a debate about the video games industry on RevLeft that I linked ages ago in the Articles and Posts thread that I think is quite relevant here. The system the original poster proposed sounded workable: RevLeft video games debate

That system only sounds workable for stuff such a movies, video games, and other downloadable entertainment content. What I'm concerned about here are the performing arts, entertainment venues such as amusment parks, and tourism.
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harmony_kh_kairi
Oct 12 2006, 08:03 PM
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Oct 6 2006, 05:00 AM
Heres a link to a debate about the video games industry on RevLeft that I linked ages ago in the Articles and Posts thread that I think is quite relevant here.  The system the original poster proposed sounded workable:  RevLeft video games debate

That system only sounds workable for stuff such a movies, video games, and other downloadable entertainment content. What I'm concerned about here are the performing arts, entertainment venues such as amusment parks, and tourism.

Well yeh, but digital entertainments as relevent to this topic as actual places where u go.
"Shoot, coward, you will only kill a man." - Che Guevera

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Zephir
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Tourism: If someone wants to go and tour somewhere, that's their business. With transportation not being so costly anymore, I don't really see any issues that need dealt with.

Performing arts: People that want to perform should be able to do so for a living if they wish to. However, there cannot be such a disproportionate amount of resources devoted to them to do so. Enough to do what they need to when they're actually making their movie, or enough to produce props if it's a play. If it's a play, first come, first serve is probably the best way for showing.

Amusement parks: Many amusement parks can be ran by very few people anymore due to computers. Of course, computers aren't exactly reliable in a crisis, so human overseers are necessary. If one is desired by a significant amount of the population (say, a couple thousand people in a single community), then it can be brought to the attention to the RMs to see if it is feasible. If it is, construction starts. If not, there will be other places where it _is_ feasible that people can travel to. That bit falls under tourism. Again, first come, first serve is probably the best way to work entrance into the park. Which seems to be how it naturally works quite often.
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harmony_kh_kairi
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Zephir
Oct 27 2006, 05:25 PM
Tourism: If someone wants to go and tour somewhere, that's their business. With transportation not being so costly anymore, I don't really see any issues that need dealt with.

Performing arts: People that want to perform should be able to do so for a living if they wish to. However, there cannot be such a disproportionate amount of resources devoted to them to do so. Enough to do what they need to when they're actually making their movie, or enough to produce props if it's a play. If it's a play, first come, first serve is probably the best way for showing.

Amusement parks: Many amusement parks can be ran by very few people anymore due to computers. Of course, computers aren't exactly reliable in a crisis, so human overseers are necessary. If one is desired by a significant amount of the population (say, a couple thousand people in a single community), then it can be brought to the attention to the RMs to see if it is feasible. If it is, construction starts. If not, there will be other places where it _is_ feasible that people can travel to. That bit falls under tourism. Again, first come, first serve is probably the best way to work entrance into the park. Which seems to be how it naturally works quite often.

I think either you're missing my point somewhere or I'm missing your's. The Tourism economy flouishes on charging tourists an arm and a leg. Without expenisve tourism in places like Florida where tourism is our major economy we can no longer continue to float our boat, as the saying goes. We sink, go under, and become poor and destitute.

As for your little bit about amusment parks running on computers, yes most of the technical aspects are even now run from huge computer rooms (rides, special effects, etc). However a computer cannot by any means replace face to face interaction or the creative processes of park personal that help serve guests (from dining, to information, etc) or the engineers and designers who put the parks together and come up with new attractions. Also once again we face that pesky problem I keep hearing, replacing humans with computers. Computers are not an end all answer. Not only do you need lots of technitions to run such highly complicated systems but you're also once again talking about putting people out of their jobs. For example, taking Florida once again. If computers did all the work in our theme parks then a couple thousand people would be out of their jobs.

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Many amusement parks can be ran by very few people anymore due to computers

Wrong! Have you ever heard or read anything about the Walt Disney World Resort here in Florida? It's home to one of the largest and most complicated computer systems in the world. Its a complete nerve center that actually lies underneath the majority of the resort. Not only are there a couple hundred technitions working to keep this computer from malfunctioning but also there are roughly 5,000 employees in the theme parks alone who run the 100's of restaurants, hotels, rides, attractions, entertainment venues, take care of the live animals, act in the live entertainment, etc etc etc etc the list goes on and on. And then you have a couple thousand more employees who help come up with new attractions or additions to the parks and the designers and egineers who then build them. Its not something that can be run by computers alone.

Quote:
 
If one is desired by a significant amount of the population (say, a couple thousand people in a single community), then it can be brought to the attention to the RMs to see if it is feasible.  If it is, construction starts.  If not, there will be other places where it _is_ feasible that people can travel to.

Still doesn't help the already existing venues that build and expand on their establishments in order to keep people coming back. Even if it were completely free people will become bored and won't come if the attractions aren't updated and new stuff added. Let's take Disney World for another example. They recently built a brand new roller coaster that cost aprox. 52.3 million to create. Under Legacy where would such massive amount of resources come from? And that's not including the billions of dollars of food they have to buy to serve to Disney guests each year. Disney is expensive to go to because they need funds to continue to run the most sucessful tourist destination in the world. People come to Florida just to go to the Walt Disney World Resort not just from around the country but from around the world. How can Legacy possibly keep such venues running as they always have? I'm only asking questions because I've racked my brains and can't come up with any answers. These are questions that need an answer for Legacy to be viable. Hundreds of thousands of people would oppose Legacy without such things answered. Also I'm not exactly satisfied with your explaination for the acting business but I'll let that go for now simply because if an answer can be found for my questions on entertainment venues then a suitable answer will surely follow for that.

(keep in mind I use Florida and Disney World as an example because I live here but what I've siad goes for every other place like them.)
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Zephir
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harmony_kh_kairi
Oct 30 2006, 09:24 AM
Zephir
Oct 27 2006, 05:25 PM
Tourism:  If someone wants to go and tour somewhere, that's their business.  With transportation not being so costly anymore, I don't really see any issues that need dealt with.

Performing arts:  People that want to perform should be able to do so for a living if they wish to.  However, there cannot be such a disproportionate amount of resources devoted to them to do so.  Enough to do what they need to when they're actually making their movie, or enough to produce props if it's a play.  If it's a play, first come, first serve is probably the best way for showing.

Amusement parks:  Many amusement parks can be ran by very few people anymore due to computers.  Of course, computers aren't exactly reliable in a crisis, so human overseers are necessary.  If one is desired by a significant amount of the population (say, a couple thousand people in a single community), then it can be brought to the attention to the RMs to see if it is feasible.  If it is, construction starts.  If not, there will be other places where it _is_ feasible that people can travel to.  That bit falls under tourism.  Again, first come, first serve is probably the best way to work entrance into the park.  Which seems to be how it naturally works quite often.

I think either you're missing my point somewhere or I'm missing your's. The Tourism economy flouishes on charging tourists an arm and a leg. Without expenisve tourism in places like Florida where tourism is our major economy we can no longer continue to float our boat, as the saying goes. We sink, go under, and become poor and destitute.

As for your little bit about amusment parks running on computers, yes most of the technical aspects are even now run from huge computer rooms (rides, special effects, etc). However a computer cannot by any means replace face to face interaction or the creative processes of park personal that help serve guests (from dining, to information, etc) or the engineers and designers who put the parks together and come up with new attractions. Also once again we face that pesky problem I keep hearing, replacing humans with computers. Computers are not an end all answer. Not only do you need lots of technitions to run such highly complicated systems but you're also once again talking about putting people out of their jobs. For example, taking Florida once again. If computers did all the work in our theme parks then a couple thousand people would be out of their jobs.

Quote:
 
Many amusement parks can be ran by very few people anymore due to computers

Wrong! Have you ever heard or read anything about the Walt Disney World Resort here in Florida? It's home to one of the largest and most complicated computer systems in the world. Its a complete nerve center that actually lies underneath the majority of the resort. Not only are there a couple hundred technitions working to keep this computer from malfunctioning but also there are roughly 5,000 employees in the theme parks alone who run the 100's of restaurants, hotels, rides, attractions, entertainment venues, take care of the live animals, act in the live entertainment, etc etc etc etc the list goes on and on. And then you have a couple thousand more employees who help come up with new attractions or additions to the parks and the designers and egineers who then build them. Its not something that can be run by computers alone.

Quote:
 
If one is desired by a significant amount of the population (say, a couple thousand people in a single community), then it can be brought to the attention to the RMs to see if it is feasible.  If it is, construction starts.  If not, there will be other places where it _is_ feasible that people can travel to.

Still doesn't help the already existing venues that build and expand on their establishments in order to keep people coming back. Even if it were completely free people will become bored and won't come if the attractions aren't updated and new stuff added. Let's take Disney World for another example. They recently built a brand new roller coaster that cost aprox. 52.3 million to create. Under Legacy where would such massive amount of resources come from? And that's not including the billions of dollars of food they have to buy to serve to Disney guests each year. Disney is expensive to go to because they need funds to continue to run the most sucessful tourist destination in the world. People come to Florida just to go to the Walt Disney World Resort not just from around the country but from around the world. How can Legacy possibly keep such venues running as they always have? I'm only asking questions because I've racked my brains and can't come up with any answers. These are questions that need an answer for Legacy to be viable. Hundreds of thousands of people would oppose Legacy without such things answered. Also I'm not exactly satisfied with your explaination for the acting business but I'll let that go for now simply because if an answer can be found for my questions on entertainment venues then a suitable answer will surely follow for that.

(keep in mind I use Florida and Disney World as an example because I live here but what I've siad goes for every other place like them.)

Tourism: Without money being a consideration, that's no longer a problem. If additional resources are required somewhere, they are sent there.

As for the computer bit, it's more to replace the jobs such as ride controls and the like. Essentially, jobs a monkey could do, but a computer would do so much better. At least, that's what I had in mind. My fault on that one, I misworded what I intended to say.

As for the resources, that 52.3 million that you mention is devoted predominantly to employee pay. The raw materials aren't actually that terribly expensive. With the way that the legacy economic system works, it wouldn't be very difficult to set up something workable.

Make no mistake about it. Such venues won't work exactly like they do now. They won't need to, though.
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"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."
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harmony_kh_kairi
Oct 30 2006, 09:24 AM
I think either you're missing my point somewhere or I'm missing your's. The Tourism economy flouishes on charging tourists an arm and a leg. Without expenisve tourism in places like Florida where tourism is our major economy we can no longer continue to float our boat, as the saying goes. We sink, go under, and become poor and destitute.

In a non-exchange based economy, how much people get charged for travel, entrance to amusement parks, etc wont effect how much the operators make, and therefore wont effect the lives of the populace.

Quote:
 
Not only do you need lots of technitions to run such highly complicated systems but you're also once again talking about putting people out of their jobs.

Again, in a non-exchange based economy, it matters not. They will always get what they need, and so long as they do what they can to support society, therell get luxury points as if they were in an actual job as well.

Quote:
 
Also I'm not exactly satisfied with your explaination for the acting business

Actually, me neither.
"Shoot, coward, you will only kill a man." - Che Guevera

"Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate, but that we are powerful beyond measure." - Nelson Mandela

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TomRK1089
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Nov 3 2006, 07:52 PM
harmony_kh_kairi
Oct 30 2006, 09:24 AM
I think either you're missing my point somewhere or I'm missing your's. The Tourism economy flouishes on charging tourists an arm and a leg. Without expenisve tourism in places like Florida where tourism is our major economy we can no longer continue to float our boat, as the saying goes. We sink, go under, and become poor and destitute.

In a non-exchange based economy, how much people get charged for travel, entrance to amusement parks, etc wont effect how much the operators make, and therefore wont effect the lives of the populace.

Quote:
 
Not only do you need lots of technitions to run such highly complicated systems but you're also once again talking about putting people out of their jobs.

Again, in a non-exchange based economy, it matters not. They will always get what they need, and so long as they do what they can to support society, therell get luxury points as if they were in an actual job as well.

As Alan says, the cheapness of the tourism bit won't translate to a loss of resources flowing to the populace. They're not dependant on the ebb and flow of tourists anymore.

And as the cost in resources declines, I'd imagine you'd see an upswing in tourism anyways. God knows I'd travel more, farther and longer if it were less expensive.

And acting...well, as an actor myself, that's always going to be a Bit-hag of a problem to solve; in fact, it's probably one of the only industries where capitalism can be said to perform well in that popular people flourish and the unpopular ones sink to the bottom.

Also if you commit to providing every Tom, Dick, and Harry resources for their play, that's going to be a considerable drain. I'd prefer to see them supply it out of their own pockets; we've done fantastic sets and props solely with donations.
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TomRK1089
Nov 13 2006, 07:36 PM
And as the cost in resources declines, I'd imagine you'd see an upswing in tourism anyways. God knows I'd travel more, farther and longer if it were less expensive.

Makes sense, makes sense :P

Quote:
 
Also if you commit to providing every Tom, Dick, and Harry resources for their play, that's going to be a considerable drain. I'd prefer to see them supply it out of their own pockets; we've done fantastic sets and props solely with donations.

That makes sense. And with computer technology as cheap as it will be in Project Legacy, the cost of special effects in films wouldnt be too high I dont think either, so we wouldnt be doing ourselves out of any Matrixes or anything.
"Shoot, coward, you will only kill a man." - Che Guevera

"Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate, but that we are powerful beyond measure." - Nelson Mandela

Project Legacy - Building the Future

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BlackLiger
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Nov 13 2006, 09:34 PM
TomRK1089
Nov 13 2006, 07:36 PM
And as the cost in resources declines, I'd imagine you'd see an upswing in tourism anyways. God knows I'd travel more, farther and longer if it were less expensive.

Makes sense, makes sense :P

Quote:
 
Also if you commit to providing every Tom, Dick, and Harry resources for their play, that's going to be a considerable drain. I'd prefer to see them supply it out of their own pockets; we've done fantastic sets and props solely with donations.

That makes sense. And with computer technology as cheap as it will be in Project Legacy, the cost of special effects in films wouldnt be too high I dont think either, so we wouldnt be doing ourselves out of any Matrixes or anything.

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TomRK1089
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Some expansion beyond simply two words would be useful.
Think twice before you speak, and then you may be able to say something more insulting than if you spoke right out at once.
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BlackLiger
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TomRK1089
Nov 14 2006, 09:28 PM
Some expansion beyond simply two words would be useful.

Fine. Air pollution due to aircraft. Think about it. Free travel/lowered cost = MUCH more air pollution. You better have fuel cell engines or something up your ass, Tom.
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