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| SailorMoonFanSubs. com is gone; Cyber Harassment kills beloved site | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 9 2010, 09:04 AM (1,757 Views) | |
| Eleo | Jan 9 2010, 09:04 AM Post #1 |
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Punkrocker Warrior of the Moon
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Many of you may already know about this, but for those who doesn't I want to give you a summary: For many years a wonderful site has existed on the web, called sailormoonfansubs.com. It has been host to over 200 gigabyte worth of sailor moon related media available for direct download, including the full subbed anime, the full subbed live action and a HUGE collection of the sera myu musicals, where the webmaster had lately also been in a project himself together with a fluent japanese speaker to subtitle the remaining unsubbed performances. However, all this is now lost. About a few months ago, the active members of the sailormoonfansubs forum could read that the webmaster had been cyberstalked an harrassed by a person who slowly had gathered more and more people to join in the harassing. I do not know how this conflict started, but one of the things I know is that the harassers for example started meaningless arguments about their own fansubs being better than the ones provided at the site, all the while dropping ambiguous remarks about how the people on the site (liking sailor moon) were stupid, etc. (which is weird coming from an allegedly passionate sub-titling group.) Their actions have finaly forced the webmaster of sailormoonfansubs to remove the site. Here is an email sent from the webmaster to all the members of the site before he had to close it:
These people, who might use clever tactics and fancy words to defend themselves in a self-righteous way can't be believed on any points. How can they claim to love Sailor Moon, work for the good of the sailor moon community and be "good people" if they; - rob that same Sailor Moon community of an immense collection of files. (Which effectively removes "competition" - they want to be the only active sailor moon fansubbers on the web) I have not downloaded any "Miss Dream" content, but many have said that their subs are of far less quality than the ones that were hosted on sailormoonfansubs, too. My how clever to avoid any comparisions - make a HATE SITE with the sole purpose of, frankly speaking, cultivating the dark and disgusting pieces of their personalities by competing in who can slander a mentally disabled man in his sixties in the most hurting way. (I BET THEY DON'T LIKE too OLD, too YOUNG, physically or mentally DISABLED or HOMO/BI/TRANSSEXUAL people at all!) Yes I went to the http://community.livejournal.com/robert_rabbit/ site and it was like a bad parody of the evil cheerleaders in an american highschool movie, laughing at eachothers cruel jokes. ...My computer recently broke, deleting lots and lots of sailor moon files, and the I get online (intent on re-downloading) to find THIS! Before all this, I got a Livejournal account myself. I intend to find out if I can send a mail to the LiveJournal owners asking them to take down the dreadful hate site, which is something that shouln'd be allowed to excist. I do not have any experience of american law, but perhaps LiveJournals own rules can somehow apply to this, since harassment is strictly forbidden on most sites. Please join me in looking into this and send several emails demanding closing the disgusting "rober_rabbit" site. ....Seriously! W-T-F! Love and Justice MY BUTT! I demand Harsh Punishment. Please members of theis wonderful forum, share my depression and anger about this. Frustrated cries from Eleo |
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| soulisthirsty | Jan 9 2010, 12:47 PM Post #2 |
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Moon Fairy
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Just a question from reading around on their livejournal, was your full information actually required to sign up? I keep seeing that and was wondering about that. Anyway, when it comes to fights there's always two sides and I'm sure he must have done something to piss them off that was more than just being a site that existed, or someone else on his site might have and they got malicious and decided to freak out on him, BUT, they do sound pretty immature on there. I find it hard to take anyone who says "lolz" over there seriously >.< Pretty messed up and I'm sorry you guys lost a site you probably went on a lot :( I haven't seen any subs of any kind yet, so it doesn't really influence me so much, but... yeah, still sucks no matter what the circumstances :/ Edit: Was just reading a screenshot they had of his post, and I felt bad for the guy :/ It was when he was posting about the whole ordeal or something. And if they are violating the rules and stuff, don't bother sending them emails. It just continues the vicious cycle on and on, it just fuels them more. If you want it shut down, report their livejournal for harassment if that's something that's against their rules. That way you can stay out of it, get it taken down without them deciding to hate on you or whoever else does it next. Plus, hypothetically speaking if they were innocent as they claim in it all, they'd be getting punished for the stuff that isn't innocent (the harassment and poking fun at the ordeal and being overall immature.) And if they aren't, then it still gets taken down without your name being given up to them. Honestly though, can't blame the guy for wanting to shut down the site. It's reaaaaaaaally frustrating when stuff like that happens, and if he has as many problems as he says, it would only be worse. Edited by soulisthirsty, Jan 9 2010, 12:58 PM.
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| Eleo | Jan 9 2010, 02:29 PM Post #3 |
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Punkrocker Warrior of the Moon
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I'm not sure, I am on LiveJournal VERY RARELY so... Well, yeah, I don't think it is totally in black and white, but personally I despise people that can't discuss or argue with a person without wanting to -bring in more people on their side -make a clever use of rhetoric to "own/pwn" them -make fun of the person (especially part of them that are torally unrelated to the issue of the argument, in this case fansubs I guess) I just can't respect people who behave in such a childish and hateful way... When I read about this conflict and then went to their robbit_rabbit site the tone of their conversation gave me the chills - it's like a trip back to junior high school before people understood that WORDS CAN BE DAMAGING and that you don't win any points in society by officially humiliating others and behaving like an emotionally disabled person. Yeah, that was what I was planning to do. It seems some of them are fairly good hackers and I wouldn't want to have them compromising everything I do on the internet. I just hope nobody on this forum is on "their" side... beacuse there is no logic to rooting for the team that makes the other team and their followers mysteriously dissappear. Sigh. I just wonder, what's so fun with hating other people? Huh? Humanity makes me sad. EDIT: I just read through some pages of the robbit_rabbit site, and it is easy to see that it's hard to know who is right and wrong in this matter, especially since only the involved partys have all the facts. One fact that doesn't go away is that they made a livejournal with the soul purpose of posting mean thoughts about the webmaster of sailormoonfansubs. If they are so smart and wonderful, they should have realized that it was their position to step down and don't take the arguement any further, something that they wrote in their livejournal that Robert should have done. As far as I know though, Robert Betts, the webmaster of smfs, only made max 4 topics and sent 1 email about this, wheras they... are reveling in how fun it is to have someone to bully, having more people join them in their so called "satirical, making-fun-of community." It just seems as if they could have stopped it, but they had to much fun finding someone to speak ill of. Edited by Eleo, Jan 9 2010, 03:00 PM.
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| Leo | Jan 9 2010, 08:26 PM Post #4 |
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Moon Fairy
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Whoa... This Email MUST be seen by all sailor moon fans! But how?!?!? Hmmmm....
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| flamesoul32 | Jan 9 2010, 11:11 PM Post #5 |
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Persona of Will
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This is wrong on so many levels. Regardless of what ever he might of done to them this is wrong. I have nothing more to say about people who are nothing but trash. |
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| soulisthirsty | Jan 18 2010, 05:30 PM Post #6 |
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Moon Fairy
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It is hard to know whose right and wrong, it almost seems like they both are in the wrong a little bit for one thing or another. But like you said, they made a livejournal for the sole purpose of harassment, and that's not cool at all. If they think that guy is being so immature and doing so many things that are uncalled for (like getting people to ask the girls to stop what they're doing and stuff) why sink to the same level? Why not prove to be better than they believe he is? By acting maliciously in return, they show they're just as bad as they claim him to be. I feel bad for the guy, though. It doesn't matter what you do, no one deserves to have a site dedicated to bashing them that way. It's not cool. |
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| Eleo | Jan 21 2010, 02:13 AM Post #7 |
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Punkrocker Warrior of the Moon
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yup. He outed himself comletely and told them that he has severe depresion disorder... And why they claim they don't want him to hurt himself, how can they keep up with that site? If you knew people weer continuesly writing a "satirical" blog about you, who in this world could stop themselves from reading it? I've read a bit more, and it seems the biggest thisng that made the whole argument start is that they found out that he is not a girl with an unknown age - usagi of SMFS - but Robert Betts, 63 years old, of Prose'n'Poetry. It seems that all their jokes and hateful comments on the livejournal site are based upon that fact. SOmethinglike "SailorMoon + Old Man = gross" seems to be the basic thought... It just pisses me off! Sure that since the argument started bob has made several really anger-exploding threads where he says all kinds of exessive things about them, but as Yen said "all I wanted was for him to admit that he was bob" (on her own blog) and I'd like to compare this to what bob said on SMFS: "I've wanted to be Usagi for the visitords to this site", talking about how it a). is a genderless name, and b). how it embodies a personalitie which he felt was apropriate to have as the webmaster of SMFS. They (robert_rabbit) act as if only girls and feminine guys in between 13 and 25 can watch sailor moon and stil be normal. Or more like, it's as if they immeadiatly jump to the conclusioin that he is the typical elderly man who poses as a girl on the internet in order to contact girls in perverse ways, BUT SERIOUSLY! No one uploads that much sailor moon without being a moonie at heart. In all his earlier posts he has been so respectful, so refined in his language, really being "Usagi". Why is it necessary to judge someoneon their gender and age? |
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| Yen-sama | Jan 27 2010, 09:38 AM Post #8 |
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Moon Flunkie
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Hi. My name is Jen and I am the girl behind the community of Robert_Rabbit on Livejournal. The community was created on November 29th, 2009. Bob contacted me, and Miss Dream owner, Elly, in late October, demanding we disband our subbing group and work under him. We politely declined, several times, and would not take no for an answer. You can read the emails back and forth on the community. Through the entire month of November, Mr. Betts had been following me into forums I frequent, causing drama, and generally just being a jerk, all which I have screen caps of, of things he's continued saying about me on his forum, Sailor Moon Forum, and SeraMyu Antics, and even his own website. The final straw came on November 24th, 2009 when Bob posted my full name and location on his website and offered $50 to anyone who can give him proof that I was cyberstalking him, which was exactly what he was doing to me. http://www.sailormoonfansubs.com/viewtopic.php?t=1363 I created the community as a place where I could openly respond to his Messages about me (instead of at my journal, which I didn't want to expose my Friends List to if they didn't want to see it). Before the mass email he sent to all of the members of the forum, the community had a little handful of members, A little more than 10, who were all directly involved with it. When the mass email went out, Our membership jumped to 74 members, and a post on the controversial community, Fandom Wank, was even made about the entire situation. Bob is the one who called attention to the situation. Before that, it was just a place where I could communicate my thoughts and feelings about his posts. Sure, some of the stuff I, and others have said, weren't the nicest things, and I take full responsibility if anyone was offended by the comments and posts. However, none of the stuff I've said will ever compare to this: http://www.prose-n-poetry.com/display_work/21034 This is disgusting, and has even cost me a job interview. I've accused Bob of being nothing but a jackass. Is this really fair? One more thing: Bob took down SailorMoonFanSubs of his own accord, and I bet it was his goal to turn the community against us by doing that, so people can blame us for the loss of a giant collection of Sailor Moon files (all of which can be found with a quick google search anyway, but I digress). No one forced him. There is someone who is stepping up and creating a website to offer the files. It's gonna take a bit since it's a lot of stuff, but it'll be up soon. Edited by Yen-sama, Jan 27 2010, 09:50 AM.
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| Tristan | Jan 27 2010, 12:56 PM Post #9 |
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Moon Fairy
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To wage such wars in internet is unbelievable to me . I always thought that internet is a great place were people of different countries can speak , debate (even argue) but always with respect to one another , this seems , just ... I can't even put a finger on that , we all have lives , friends , hobby's hundreds of things that makes us humans , and somebody begins such conflict because of what? What there is to gain? I can understand when somebody attacks me on the street , clearly he want my money , I can understand when someone is backstabbing me in my place of work (if he can elevate his position on my expence) but honestly what there is to gain here? We are fans of a series that for general population is almost unknown ( at best they remember glimpses from the old time) those of us who are above 20 may consider themselves rather , strange maybe (especially if like me they are man) so we should form rather close sociaty, instead the guy accused you of being rappist, and why ? This is fundamental question and it drives me nuts not knowing this. |
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| Yen-sama | Jan 27 2010, 12:59 PM Post #10 |
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Moon Flunkie
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I'm afraid I can't answer your question. But I'm going to ask all of you to keep a neutral outlook when viewing this drama. Also, keep tabs on http://sailormoonforum.com because I'm sure the new media site will be announced there when it's open |
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| Tristan | Jan 27 2010, 01:26 PM Post #11 |
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Moon Fairy
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Well I am not some BIG-SHOT in fans community , but you can rest assured that I will keep neutral stance , the single fact that guy actually accuse you of rape is enough to leave me without any kind of kindness to him , I have frequently argued with people on convents meetings and whatnot but it never occured to me to call police and accuse them of for example sexual harrasment:-) |
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| Eleo | Jan 27 2010, 02:36 PM Post #12 |
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Punkrocker Warrior of the Moon
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Yen-Sama! (and others following the conflict) I'm sorry for making the first post antagonistic. Bob is, as you know very persuasive and has a way of making people get fired up about things. (The webstalking-reward post, the mass email.) It is easy to at first believe everything without making the effort of hearing out the other side, something he also said thad members of his forums shouldn't do, as you all would "entrance us with your lies" etc. I've been since posting here reading up quite a bit, and as far as I can see your version is very believable, especially since the way Bob talks about you on SMFS is contradicting, threatening and plain scary. I've also come to understand that apart from the files that were taken down from megaupload... (an issue which is clouded in mystery, since few japanese companies press copyright issues it must be assumed that SOMEONE, related or unrelated to your team, I have no idea, reported the files as illegal to megaupload and, later, megavideo) ...all files have been taken down and made unavailable by Bob himself, which is very frustrating for new fans who want to see SailorMoon products for the first time, or old fans with crashed harddrives wanting to rebuild their collection (me). I also have a hard time seeing the sense in it - he is punishing the entire community by witholding (and violently accusing all who would want to make available elsewhere) material that he (besides the SMFS myu subs) have no exclusive rights to as far as I know. I do feel sorry for "QueenBee" who was supposed to be new admin of SMFS and let it all cool down - apparently Bob got orders from his doctor to not go online, which he sadly has done anyway, driven away the peaceworking voice of reason QueenBee, taken away stuff and spewn hellfire in the shape of your name in all ways possible. I have atleast been in contact with the admin at "get across the moon", offering the files I've shaken loose from my poor harddrive, so when the site is up I'll add torrents and seed as much as possible. I think your subtitles the best myu subs out there, with the potential of becoming absolutely perfect; Because, and on the subject that you would be eliltistic and stuck up about your japanese skills; I find your team to be quite able to listen to other persons comments about the subs, correcting them from time to time, and the softsub option makes it so that you can update them a lot until they are a work of art. As you say some of the comments on robert_rabbit are quite illtempered, and I reacted against them because I felt that they did not critizise his personality and actions, but his age, gender, looks and possibly also the fact that he suffers from Major Depression Disorder (which he himself at first described as "mentally impaired" or something along those lines.) For those reasons I personally wished you would close down the community, or make a final "we are dignified people who are better than that" statement then locking it. I just thought it would be easier since you are people that are not hinderd by mental conditions as I imagine Bob might be - different combinations of mental disorders (emotional, how to socially connect with peopple, obsessive compulsive disorder and so on) can make it really difficult to end situations like this. However, as grownups, maybe it would be for the best if you let it go and just privately watched his actions/posts about you, and in the worst case scenario, report to any authorities if he won't stop. (Rapist, ideed? That is just too much) Right now i just hope that Bob won't attack any more people, robert_rabbit forum will close, getacrossthemoon will open up, and you will release more miss dream fansubs (which I btw hope to one day, when I have time, assist with some script spelling/grammar- proofreading on released performances). I also hope you will get the next job you applie for, life is hard anyway without an income. Lastly, (Warning, bad japanese coming up) Honto ni sumimasen! (wrong particle, probably) Sorry for all the drama! /Eleo |
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| Yen-sama | Jan 27 2010, 05:13 PM Post #13 |
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Moon Flunkie
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It's okay. Tends to happen when people don't see both sides of the story. We're only human, ne? As for the community, it's locked, and only available to people via invite only now. We haven't written anything about Bob in since since his last posts toward us (Or me, rather.) I know this doesn't justify what has been said, but the reason we've commented on his age and his gender is because he's said some very very silly, out there things. Like, and I quote, "I'm a 33 year old woman. Just ask my gynecologist," and "You should respect me because I'm old." Also, MDD is a fancy word for clinical depression. Millions of Americans are diagnosed with it, and are known to lead very normal, fulfilling lives. I was formally diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder four years ago, and it just pisses me off when Bob says he's disabled because of his mental condition, as if he's using his condition as a crutch. It's a disorder. Not a disability. (Though, we're absolutely certain he has something worse than MDD, because paranoia and delusion are not symptoms of MDD. Bob hasn't come out and said anything about it, so we don't know. For all we know, he could just be a really good liar.) Thank you for taking the time to listen to me. The staff of GATM is working hard and diligently. Please be patient :) |
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| flamesoul32 | Jan 27 2010, 06:47 PM Post #14 |
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Persona of Will
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...It appears I must apologize for my earlier post. In general I have a hatred of hate wars in general and that came out rather strongly in my post. Gomen kudasai. |
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| Yen-sama | Jan 28 2010, 01:52 AM Post #15 |
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Moon Flunkie
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It's okay. Like I said, we're all human. :3 |
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