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Are you okay with Luna and Artemis utilizing their human forms often?
No 10 (27%)
Yes 27 (73%)
Total Votes: 37
Luna and Artemis Human Forms; Should they see more use? :D
Topic Started: Sep 15 2009, 04:52 PM (57,612 Views)
Chains Of Fate
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President of Crystal Tokyo
I was thinking more about realism for the game (A mistake LOL because it makes me want to make more changes) but one plot-hole so to speak is the fact that Luna and Artemis are around the Soldiers and their civilian forms. Wouldn't someone see Luna with Sailor Moon and then see Luna with Usagi and be like "Hey, that's Sailor Moon's cat. OMG Usagi is Sailor Moon!" ? XD It's just kind of weird. If they didn't have the distinctive crescent moons on their heads it might be a different story, but that's not the case.

So what I was thinking to counter-act this would be allowing Luna and Artemis to use their human forms at will. Now, at first this probably seems like a weird idea but I think it could be executed pretty nicely. Luna is a cat, and cats are very quick and you could say they're sneaky. Hide in the shadows, that sort of thing. They are nimble and quick. I can see Luna wearing all black and being kind of like a spotter for Sailor Moon, at first communicating with her at somewhat close distance, and then after Mercury joins the party she is able to move more freely and communicate with the Soldiers via Mercury's microphone (thus actually giving the freakin thing some use since it is merely there for looks for the most part). Artemis would play a similar role perhaps. It allows them to actually be part of the action without being too directly involved. Of course, they would be involved occasionally during desperate situations.

I just think it would be a pretty unique twist for the story. Usagi encountering Luna as both a cat and human at the beginning is kind of cool I think. And although Luna/Artemis can become this form at will, perhaps this form is like Sailor Luna where if they are hit too hard or something they revert back to cat form.

So. Let that sink into your minds and vote in the poll!

And anyone concerned that the few changes taking place lately are going to make the game take longer to develop, worry not. They are pretty easy to integrate.


EDIT:

I changed the wording since I was informed that Artemis voted wrong on accident. XD

Anywho! I forgot to mention that Luna and Artemis will (or would) have their manga appearances. They'll be wearing different outfits for when the Soldiers are in action most definitely, not sure if they will also have regular wardrobe changes, it just depends on how often they will be in human form outside of battle.

Also, since it was voted that Luna and Artemis should be playable, I'm curious as to how people would like that to work. Now, just as a reminder, they are optional playable characters, meaning you don't HAVE to use them, they are just there if you want them, essentially. I still haven't panned out the details but they will most likely be somewhat weak, with the exception of some perhaps particularly useful skills and abilities.
Edited by Chains Of Fate, Sep 15 2009, 07:23 PM.
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Tristan
Moon Fairy
I think that nobody really notices cats , there are quite many of them stary not stray all kinds and shapes, its like with homeless people , you see only well how should i put it ...form . if anybody ask you how he looked most of you will answer ...like homeless :-) so i think that this is really not a problem , besides I like the idea of luna cat , luna human just don't apeal to me , she is not so... symbolic maybe . I would truly be devastated if she just turn from one form to another and you know that very few things actually bug me considering your project . but you will do as you wish , its your game after all
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ArtemisX
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Moon Fairy
Don't go dismissing Luna's human form, it does become very important in the last arc (She and Artemis are from the same planet asd Sailor Tin Nyanko and she has no problem controlling her human form), and Artemis's role as Venus's guardian is quite tied with his ability to turn into human, plus in the live action, Luna's human form becomes a regular by the end.

And in the story several of the characters make note of Luna the cat's Crescent Moon symbol right away (Ikuko, Ami, Rei being the first to come to mind), and in her own story, the Lover of Princess Kaguya (Which the human form is also appears), the story which the S movie is based off, the central guest characters also are able to ID Luna via the crescent Moon, and both cats have been place in battle, whether trying to distract the enemy or stepping in to protect the senshi from an attack (Albeit stupidly, since they're cats) so it is a valid concern to a point.

Yeah most people don't notice cats, but in Naoko's world, people often notice these cats. and often catch them almost talking, so finmding out in the last arc they are able to appear as human kinda makes you wonder why they didn't bring this up way before (Yeah Naoko hadn't thought of their origin till later, and this game often seems to want to fix the holes she left)

I am all for them being able to turn from both forms from the starts, I like the idea, it gives them a better chance to be helpful, cause as cat they're rather restricted, yet they're guides and we get to see their human forms sooner, which I'm all for. Not to mention it gives them a chance to have their backstories explored more, which none of the versions of the story do.

Edited by ArtemisX, Sep 15 2009, 06:41 PM.
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Chains Of Fate
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President of Crystal Tokyo
I changed the wording since I was informed that Artemis voted wrong on accident. XD

Anywho! I forgot to mention that Luna and Artemis will (or would) have their manga appearances. They'll be wearing different outfits for when the Soldiers are in action most definitely, not sure if they will also have regular wardrobe changes, it just depends on how often they will be in human form outside of battle.

Also, since it was voted that Luna and Artemis should be playable, I'm curious as to how people would like that to work. Now, just as a reminder, they are optional playable characters, meaning you don't HAVE to use them, they are just there if you want them, essentially. I still haven't panned out the details but they will most likely be somewhat weak, with the exception of some perhaps particularly useful skills and abilities.
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flamesoul32
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Persona of Will
I like this idea a lot. It fills in some plot holes, gives a use for Mercury's microphone, and gives them a way to be useful(if weak) optional characters.

Plus I just like the idea of Luna being more useful in the beginning. I mean really, what did she do early on besides try to give advice(that was mostly ignored) and give out magical items like they were candy.

As for the optional characters and how that works I would prefer to have a choice between their forms or just have their human forms in a fight. The human forms fighting really makes a lot more sense but to have the option to fight in the cat forms(or being forced to in a story event) could be interesting and fun.

As a note I love Chibi-Luna in PGSM but I wouldn't want her to be Luna's human form in the game(although a cameo would be fun) The main post made it pretty clear that Chibi-Luna isn't the form in the game but I figured I would say this anyway. (I don't really know what she looked like in the manga...I really need to make time to actually read it.)

It would also be cool if during an event Luna gives the senshi information about the situation as they proceed. Now that would be cool.

...I just realized how much I skipped around with topics...um...sorry? Usagi_Hah
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sicknpsyko
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Moon Fairy
Although I agree with Artemis about people noticing the crescent moons on their foreheads, I think that's about it as far as people noticing them. I mean, if I saw a cat with a weird "bald spot" I'd probably mention it too. I don't remember anyone ever pointing out that sailor moon had a cat though, and a lot of their fighting happened when the civilians were knocked out or no one was around. Well, that's how it was in the anime, I don't remember with the manga, it's been such a long time. In Sailor V Artemis wasn't really seen by anyone other than Minako though.

I guess I'm kind of indifferent to the idea of them being able to switch back and forth, although I'm leaning toward the no side, just because it's quite a new idea for me. I always thought of their human forms being as a Crystal Tokyo thing or something.
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ArtemisX
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Moon Fairy
That's kinda the point of why this is being suggested though, not many people are familiar with the concept cause the Anime ignores it, the manga only reveals it by the end and the live action presents it without explanation.

And the plot hole here is WHY they weren't notice by others considering they had such distinguishing features on their heads and they were in fact constantly around sailor moon and the other senshi in public venues. There isn't evidence that people notice, but the people of the story can't be that oblivious either.

And is like flamesoul32 said, they did nothing much but give advice that wasn't taken seriously and handed weapons. This gives them a chance to do a bit more than that.

Plus, these are beings that posses Star Seeds that are close to pure, they should be able to do more than be cats, and again, the people oftheir planet can control both forms (Which is the most important hole left in this plot to me) it makes sense they have this power as something they can use from the start, even if it's not all the time.
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Rumn-Snuffles
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Anthropomorphic Personification
I definitely agree with them having the ability from early on, it fixes the plot hole...

...but there is a stray cat problem in Japan, if they saw a cat they'd most probably just go 'ew' and shoo it.... However, I suppose if the cats are with the sailor senshi while they're fighting, then they'd definitely be in a sort of spotlight...

And even if they weren't noticed WITH the senshi, kids (like the abusers at the beginning) might notice the crescent moon and link it with sailor moon.... So then I thought maybe they could hide the crescent moon somehow... but I have no idea how that would work, since if it's totally covered they lose their speaking powers... which is odd, would that mean that the crescent moon enables speech and back on their home planet they were mute as cats? Since they would hardly have the symbol of the moon kingdom that far away from it....

But I really would like to see the human forms of the cats more often... As homeage to Sailor Luna you could have Diana acting a bit like her! I think that'd be cute...

With human forms though, how would Usagi get Luna living with her? She couldn't just bring some girl home.... At least with the cat it worked as a pet sorta relationship, unless her family see cat Luna but no-one else does... becomes human when she leaves the house...

Another point was that maybe Luna might wait a bit before revealing her human side to Usagi? It's hard enough for her to get used to a talking cat, and it would be Luna's more hide-able form, so maybe she could reveal it later, when she has to.... Possibly she'll start using the human form after she's caught on TV or seen by a big crowd with Sailor Moon....

Just some ideas though, I reckon it'd be cute to have the human cats around.... But I'm still really attached to their cat forms, so use them too VenusPose
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Tristan
Moon Fairy
And I liked them in a role "advisor only" it was really good , wise and konwleadgeble luna forced to educate usagi being nothing more than a cat henceforth don't having any "force" arguments to help her study :-) And the fact that they were ignored often also contribute to the story after all luna is reasnoable and smart but teenagers are not always reasonable :-) Giving them human form is still... I don't know , kind of cheap to me , nobody would spend a minute in the body of a cat if he/she could be full fledged human and therefore being taken more seriously by the others , MAYBE in the last arc when she knows and trusts usagi as a form of expressing this trust she could turn human , but not in the first arc when enemies are unknown and the best thing to do is lay low and be as catish as possible.
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Chains Of Fate
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President of Crystal Tokyo
There actually is a twist at the beginning dealing with Luna and the stray cat problem of Japan which I think everyone will enjoy. ^^

They will usually only use their human forms when around the Sailor Soldiers, not their civilian selves. For example, Luna will not run around in her human form at Usagi's house. Luna and Artemis will still be in cat form for at least half if not a majority of the time.

Luna will probably reveal her human form to Usagi in the first act, but not right away.


Tristan, Luna and Artemis are still maintaining an adviser-type role for a majority of the time. Having them as playable characters will be optional and their role during missions is to act as a spotter of sorts and assist in other, primarily non offensive ways.

However, Luna and Artemis even as cats don't always have an "adviser only" role, in any adaptation. They attempt to help fight on several occasions. In the manga Luna is pretty integral at the end of the first story arc. As ArtemisX said, they weren't given their human forms in the early parts of the manga because Naoko had not yet developed a back story for them. She did fix this partially in PGSM, designing Sailor Luna herself and allowing Luna free us of her human form.
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Tristan
Moon Fairy
I am not negating the fact that its in the story ( I only watched the anime and read 3 -4 manga's and despised live action after first 5 minuts) so I am not qualified to speak in this terms , I am just saying that I don't like this idea , Naoko was/is not perfect there are some of her ideas that bugs me (why there are no male senshi its discrimination , if today any film/comics was created and author would explicitly said "only man can be magicians/wizards/guardians feminists groups would tear him to shreds, so you can freely discriminate man but woman , oh no!This is wrong) Sailor luna? Of what planet , if from the same planet as this tin (whatever) that mean she is from out of the solar system and should be blasted to shreds by outers who defend us from the outsiders. Yes I know and now you wil tell me the whole "why you are wrong story" fine , but I will still stand on position that being prisoned (of a sort) in cat bodies adds much dramatism to a character.
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ArtemisX
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Moon Fairy
It's okay to not like her ideas, but is going to be hard to support this game if you don't, since for the most part her main ideas are what are trying to be made here.

Also, I never considered her to be sexist to just have women be Sailors. I don't think she meant to diminish male roles in any form. Otherwise Mamoru wouldn't be in it. He has the role of Guardian of Earth, along with sailor Moon and possesses a Crystal, the Golden Crystal that equals the Sailor Crystals of the girls. I think in that universe there was a males counterpart to the Sailor Senshi, but Mamoru just seemed to be the only prominent one in this story (And Helios could be considered the other, I supposed.) And Mamoru serves hugely in helping Sailor Moon progress since the first arc and there was never a Sailor Earth taking his place. I just think a male Sailor Fuku would've just been plain weird. Though there's fan art featuring Mamo-chan in a mini skirt suit just to see. >_>

As for the planet issue, if you really want to know and weren't just being sarcastic, and spoilers for the manga Star arc for those who haven't read it:

Sailor Tin Nyanko is a Sailor Animate that Galaxia used to gather Sailor Crystal, she's the one with the cat suit in the anime's last season. In the manga she attacks Luna and Artemis and reveals that she's from planet Mau, Artemis and Luna's home planet that was destroyed by Galaxia. She calls them traitors for having left their planet (I'm assuming this was because they left to serve the queen, making their entrance permited by her and overules the theory that the outers wouldn't allow it) and tries to kill them, only to be stopped by Diana who comes from the future to protect her parents, during this they're all in human form but Tin Nyanko damaged the crescent Moon on their heads making them lose the human form and their ability to talk. This plot reason for Tin Nyanko's motivation gave a lot info that I think can be greatly explored if the cats are allowed to human from early on.

And Sailor Luna: in the live action Luna, thinking the girls could use some help in fights, transforms herself into a human form ( a girl about 12 or 11 that has blue hair). Using one of their disguise phones (The phone that replaces the disguise pen in the live action) she turns into Sailor Luna (Really is a fake transformation, but it helps keeps enemies distracted) and has her own Moon Stick item that she can turn into any weapon (Similar to Chibi moon's luna-p) or use an attack base in a candy motif. in the human form she can also jump and move faster and can hear things from great distances.

As for the crescent moon Rumm-Snuffles brought up, I think that was also a matter of vagueness on Naoko's part which could also be explained better if they have a lot more time to develop that side. One theory could be that Planet Mau was protected by the Moon kingdom and all its being had the crescent moon, or maybe it was just Luna and Artemis and their ability to talk through the crescent moon is just a case of the Silver millenium not being around anymore that greatly limited their powers. There's plenty of ways to go since that was left basically opened.
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Tristan
Moon Fairy
First of all I said I don't like "some" of her ideas , i am on sailor moon forum that means that i like more things than disslike wouldn't you say?
Mamoru alone - 10 senshi
If it was a company they would sue it for disrimination and thats plain fact
There are male cheerleaders and they don't wear skirts so I think that male equivalent of the fuku could be created (I appreciate the joke however :-)
So she is from outside the solar system as I told , Uranos and Neptune are getting lazy , starligts,luna , artemis , soon we will be a tourist atraction :-)
And besides if they were from outiside the solar system why they have crescent moon sings ? It was a symbol of silver millenium after all, they entire background and human form seems to be adedd forcfully by Naoko , like she wanted to introduce a new idea and didn't thought about every piece of history clicking together. After all she is only human , she may make mistakes , and creating entire theories to explain it(like it was in the topic with eternal forms in silv. millenium) is just unwise .

And as I say I am not negating the fact that story-wise what you are saying is truthfull , I simply don't like the idea of entire changing concept , I think that it is great that wisdome and knowledge is locked inside something as inconspicuous as cat.
Edited by Tristan, Sep 16 2009, 03:07 AM.
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ArtemisX
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Moon Fairy
If they had queen's permission (They were her advisors) they overide the outers.

The story is girl centered, of course mamoru was outnumbered. plus he had his four guardians, they were just killed off in the first arc.

And I don't think is a force concept, nor can you say the concept is changed by exploring it. She always gave designing a character a lot of work, to the point of over thinking the naming system, so she probably was opened to the idea of their human form, and had a chance to do it around the Infinity arc with luna's story and then incorporated it into the dream arc. Every time she got to continued her work she would always find a way to explain stuff from her previous work (Like how she tied the Sailor V manga to Sailor Moon after she finished Sailor Moon). Is why the Senshi pass from being plain soldiers to discovering their castles and their princess forms and their crystals. It was just how she progressed her stories. If there would've been a 6th arc she likely would've continued expanding.
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Tristan
Moon Fairy
I remember our former discusion about beryl , it will be hard to believe but I actualy learn from my mistakes , I am not stupid enough to argue with you on any sailor moon related topic . I just stated my opinion , I am not trying to convice/convert anybody to it
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