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Crystal Tokyo Forms; For the Sailor Soldiers
Topic Started: Jun 14 2009, 09:57 PM (1,925 Views)
Rumn-Snuffles
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I agree with Hermes...

But Chains, having it all as one stable timeline creates even more paradoxes! Chibi-Usa should disappear once they save the world in the present because the future Chibi-Usa no longer has a need to go back in time... JupiterConfused But I'm sure the geekier SM fans out there have already discussed all this...

But I guess for simplicity's sake, stick with eternal in the future... it suits the fashion over there, anyway UsagiLaugh

Or, you could always make them all in princess form! VenusPose

Except when they're being attacked, I guess...
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MichiruKaiou
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Moon Fairy
Love gif Yeah I agree maybe Princess forms except in battle its Eternal. Makes sense. ChibiMoonWin Sailor_Chibi_Moon_Transform
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Starlight Healer
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Meatball Head
I agree with the princess forms too.

In my mind I thought of the Chibiusa thing and then quickly forgot it because it made it complicated lol!
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sicknpsyko
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Moon Fairy
Well didn't the Black Moon Clan follow ChibiUsa from Crystal Tokyo to the 20th Century? If that's true, then they defeated an enemy from the future, so it wouldn't necessarily mess time up.
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flamesoul32
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Rumn-Snuffles
Jul 8 2009, 01:29 AM
I agree with Hermes...

But Chains, having it all as one stable timeline creates even more paradoxes! Chibi-Usa should disappear once they save the world in the present because the future Chibi-Usa no longer has a need to go back in time... JupiterConfused But I'm sure the geekier SM fans out there have already discussed all this...

But I guess for simplicity's sake, stick with eternal in the future... it suits the fashion over there, anyway UsagiLaugh

Or, you could always make them all in princess form! VenusPose

Except when they're being attacked, I guess...
There is no parodox because the reason for Chibi-Usa to go back in time comes from her own time and that is not changed by the events of the present/her past.

I really wish there was a way to say that without repeating 'time' so much. Usagi_Hah

As for the princess form idea I sorta disagree. When the present senshi have to go to the future (at any time) it was mostly during a dangerous time (Black Moon). That would give a good reason for them to be in eternal form and not princess form. Although if it is a safe time without a reason to be in eternal form I do see your point.
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Cloud
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ArtemisX
Jul 4 2009, 10:41 PM
I'm voting for yes, but I don't know, I always thought the reason why they didn't have upgrades, like super or eternal in the future had to do with that pink spore, er, "Small Lady", coming to the past and changing stuff thereby making her future more of an alternative thing rather than what was going to happen to the present senshi.

I have to reread the manga for examples of what I mean here, but take the anime's Holy Grail/Moon Cup. Chibi-Annoying remembers seeing it in the future yet it was destroyed/absorbed/written out during the final battle of the S season.

and another issue, with the whole Super Form thing in the anime, was that Chibiusa's gross horse love brought on the Upgrade.

Erm, my point is, the time travel likely had consequences to what happens later. who knows, if they hadn't open that door, who's to say that they would've upgraded beyond Planet Powers? (Or Star power for that matter, since they only got planet powers thanks to the Neo Queen which is yet another annoying time parodox)

Of course, there's no evidence to confirm or deny what I think and time travel always leaves these holes which is why I do so hate it as a story device (and probably why I never like the chibibrat in the first place).

For simplicity's sake, I'll just side with the eternal forms, but yeah, Rumm-Muffles point will still be there, if they are Eternal it'll just seem like they could've done more than just get all defeated and have the senshi, 3 levels behind them save the freaking day. So I'll still believe if that in Chibi-Usa's timeline they just never got there.
Totally agreed!
In the R ark of the game we should see the future senshi in their basic form, cause their upgrades to super and eternal senshi happens after all the Chibiusa/Pegasus/Holy Chalice storyline.
The time travel had consequences to what happens late.
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flamesoul32
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This thread could go on forever at this rate...

Chibi-Usa time travel changed how the future happened but did not create a separate timeline. The senshi of the future are the same senshi that met Chibi-Usa in the past. That means the senshi of Chibi-Usa's time already know what will happen in the past and their present(dark moon). Now that I think of it they are probably in their basic forms to stop a parodox from happening. Their younger selves do not and probably should not know about the super and eternal transformations. If they did, it could cause an unforseen change in the timeline that the future senshi already lived through. That would form a parodox or a separate timeline.

Of couse that is all assuming that a separate timeline was not formed by Chibi-Usa jumping to the past. That would mean that the future Chibi-Usa is from is indeed not the Modern day senshi's future but really an alternate dimension/timeline that is very close to there own.

To get back on topic this gives a reason for the senshi of the future to be in their basic form at least the first time they meet the modern day senshi (first paragragh). After all that I still supprt the eternal forms and a single timeline for the rpg though.

...I also really hope someone else doesn't give me an excuse to talk like this again (looking at Cloud, sicknpsyko, Rumn-Snuffles, and ArtemisX) MarsAttack

...I also think I enjoy confusing theory's way to much and the last comment was a bad joke.
Edited by flamesoul32, Jul 8 2009, 10:05 PM.
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ArtemisX
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Moon Fairy
-Is about to say something... but decides to drop it.-

haha.. just joking, this will probably be something that no one will agree on 100% but pretty much everyone supports the Eternal forms as far as the game goes, so I guess, at least for the game, that is how it's going to be.
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Rumn-Snuffles
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flamesoul32
Jul 8 2009, 10:00 PM
...I also really hope someone else doesn't give me an excuse to talk like this again (looking at Cloud, sicknpsyko, Rumn-Snuffles, and ArtemisX) MarsAttack
Aww, but it's so much fun! JupiterBlush

But actually, I really agree with your idea... It'd suck to be the senshi, though, as they'd have to keep remembering exactly which enemies will escape to which time... and kind of makes the future events seem a bit... staged (the senshi not stopping ChibiMoonWin running away). But on the whole, I think it works out really well... and it also solves another problem I had; if the senshi live on earth for a while after the series finishes, and then set up the Moon Kingdom and all, wouldn't they possibly have to fight more baddies and maybe power-up again?

I mean, Eternal forms seem pretty final, but it'd be kind of odd if absolutely nothing happened... I guess they might just beat anyone that attacks them... Anyway! This way, the future senshi are dressing like the past senshi would expect.... so even if they did power-up further, we wouldn't even have to open that can of worms~! UsagiLaugh

So I guess I go with how they had it in manga/anime... whatever forms would make sense to the present-day senshi.... (Although I really like the idea of getting to see them in eternal gear more... we see it so little otherwise)
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Starlight Healer
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Meatball Head
Again, this is so confusing.

I agree that the senshi should be in their original forms for the Dark Moon Arc at least.
But if they defeat the Dark Moon during their time, wouldn't that lead to their defeat for good? Like they wouldn't appear in the future because they died in the past.

idk if that made sense, time traveling in genreal is nonsense LOL jkjk
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Rumn-Snuffles
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Starlight Healer
Jul 10 2009, 01:28 AM
Again, this is so confusing.

I agree that the senshi should be in their original forms for the Dark Moon Arc at least.
But if they defeat the Dark Moon during their time, wouldn't that lead to their defeat for good? Like they wouldn't appear in the future because they died in the past.

idk if that made sense, time traveling in genreal is nonsense LOL jkjk
Yeah, I thought that... but the Dark Moon of the 'past' are the future versions of the 'future' dark moon....

Like, think about it this way... The Dark Moon are an organisation that form a bit before Chibi, right? So in the future, they start up, and then they are after Chibi and she goes back in time... so they follow her. Yeah? It just means that they technically die before they are born... because they die in the past. But for them, like, their bodies' timelines, it's afterwards. Yeah?

Hope that made sense LunaDown
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Chains Of Fate
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It can't really be said for sure how things would have happened in the timeline because of the Black Moon. We don't know if the events happened somewhat the same way in both cases.

Even more so, Naoko had not designed the Super and Eternal forms for the Soldiers when she wrote the Black Moon arc, so it would have been impossible for her to have used them.

Neo Queen Serenity surely had to fight the Death Busters, the Dead Moon Circus, and Galaxia in the "original timeline" (provided that its even different.) Even if they didn't fight the Black Moon.

Its during those battles that they gained their Super and Eternal forms, so either way you look at it, them having their eternal forms would be accurate.

As far as the princess dresses, they will wear those in the future during casual and formal times.
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Lilly_fer
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Moon Fairy
my head hurts.

assuming the future is affected by things that have already happened, i suppose the dream arc and stars arc hadn't happened during the R arc when they first went to the future, assuming that the future is constantly changing due to the events in the past, so as the sailor senshi faced enemies that required them to change into their super and eternal forms, which would account for the change in the future.

but i voted eternal because they're cool and it would make it fit with the timeline.
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flamesoul32
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Chains Of Fate
Jul 10 2009, 07:56 AM
It can't really be said for sure how things would have happened in the timeline because of the Black Moon. We don't know if the events happened somewhat the same way in both cases.

Even more so, Naoko had not designed the Super and Eternal forms for the Soldiers when she wrote the Black Moon arc, so it would have been impossible for her to have used them.

Neo Queen Serenity surely had to fight the Death Busters, the Dead Moon Circus, and Galaxia in the "original timeline" (provided that its even different.) Even if they didn't fight the Black Moon.

Its during those battles that they gained their Super and Eternal forms, so either way you look at it, them having their eternal forms would be accurate.

As far as the princess dresses, they will wear those in the future during casual and formal times.
I think I like my more story related explanation for why their not in eternal form in the future...

@Chains: Are you useing the theory that there is an "original timeline" (meaning that the modern timeline is mostly separate from the future) or that there is a single timeline (meaning that the senshi of the future lived through the events of the past). My previous post had a lot more detail on the two theory's and the reason their in basic form.

@Rumn-Snuffles: Future Pluto can see the past in the time gates. It wouldn't be as hard as you think to remeber what happened back then. Also the future events would be at least partialy staged(can't use the time gates to remeber those scenes) to try to prevent a parodox.
Edited by flamesoul32, Jul 10 2009, 12:43 PM.
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Chains Of Fate
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President of Crystal Tokyo
I essentially was saying that we can't really know for sure how it works. XD
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