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Rate Ep. 4.10: One of Us
Topic Started: Aug 19 2007, 04:50 PM (2,993 Views)
Keenir
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Ranadiel
Aug 22 2007, 05:16 AM
Quote:
 
*calls up friends and relatives who will pursue the Satanic family while I'm in the hospital with no kneecaps*

...and all of them have friends and relatives of their own as well.

What makes you think that they could even track down Lilly and Richard at that point? These people weren't secret agents with a bunch of contacts and funds that could be expended in tracking them down. They were a few backwater extremists that chased some people from their house. If Richard and Lilly got a day or two ahead of these guys, and lacking any kneecaps I doubt the guys would be able to get any help for a few days.


well then, if they're that much of a non-threat*, why bother with their kneecaps?

(ignoring the fact that even a backwater extremist can give an interview on television -- such a thing would be manna to any anti-4400 politician in any country, and to extremist groups all over the place)

* = given how many other threats Isabelle has to deal with, such as the Future, Collier, NTAC, etc.



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why would it be neutral? I'm taking your lunch money so I can get lunch (which is a good thing)...and since violence is bad, you should surrender beforehand and give me your lunch money.

I never said that violence is inately bad, killing when there are other alternatives is evil. Violence to defend yourself, short of killing and absolutely destroying a person's life, is a nuetral act.


Gandhi himself said that if there's a lunatic running around threatening everyone with a sword, whomever kills the lunatic will be regarded by everyone as a benevolent man.

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In your example, because you are threatening me, even if it is one of the weakest threats ever, then I have every right to do what is neccesary to protect myself.


but Isabelle doesn't? ;)


we should probably agree to disagree on this.
yes?
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Ranadiel
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Quote:
 
well then, if they're that much of a non-threat*, why bother with their kneecaps?

(ignoring the fact that even a backwater extremist can give an interview on television -- such a thing would be manna to any anti-4400 politician in any country, and to extremist groups all over the place)

Because they have guns? I'm not saying that she should not have protected herself, Lilly or Richard, but she did not have to kill them especially in the manner that she did. As for the interviews, a few idiots who shoot out their own knecaps would likely be seen as a bunch of raving lunatics when they try to place the blame on a baby. At that point they would be ignored by the mainstream and embraced by the nut jobs who don't need encouragment to act like nut jobs.

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Gandhi himself said that if there's a lunatic running around threatening everyone with a sword, whomever kills the lunatic will be regarded by everyone as a benevolent man.

And he would be wrong in this, you would only be a benevolent man if you were to convince him to lay down the sword with words. Should that fail, kick him in the nads and then steal the sword while he is gasping for air. Should that fail, then you put him in a cage and remember to give him food everyday. Then I guess killing would be the next step after that i the guy still refused to stop.

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but Isabelle doesn't?

Killing them was not neccesary though, therefore she was taking steps beyond what is required to defend herself.

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we should probably agree to disagree on this.
yes?

Probably for the best.
Click here if you disagree with me.
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Keenir
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Ranadiel
Aug 22 2007, 12:46 PM
Quote:
 
but Isabelle doesn't?

Killing them was not neccesary though, therefore she was taking steps beyond what is required to defend herself.



Quote:
 
we should probably agree to disagree on this.
yes?

Probably for the best.

no baby or infant, however strong in any way, knows the niceties of morality or the degrees of danger.



*now that we've agreed, tucks discussion in for bed*
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cinder_chick
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Collier tells Shawn that there can't be two classes of people because the positives will rid the world of the negatives. But isn't that what he's doing? By making everyone take the shot without letting them test to see if they will survive he is effectively wiping out the negatives. Only he covers himself by calling it "sacrifice".

And on a second note about Jordan's speech. How does having an ability suddenly make you less of a failure as a human being? Having an ability doesn't suddenly make you a good person. Just look at Daniel Armond (is that how you spell it?).

Although on a much brighter note. Shawn did look very pretty in that scene, and in this whole episode for that matter :).
Firefly quote of the week:
Kaylee: Everone's got someone but me. Wash tell me I'm pretty.
Wash: Were I unwed I'd take you in a manly fashion.
Kaylee: Coz I'm pretty?
Wash: Coz your pretty.
(Hearts of Gold).
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Ranadiel
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no baby or infant, however strong in any way, knows the niceties of morality or the degrees of danger.

Because I have to get in the last word, there is no baby who has the power to make people shoot each other or themselves against their own will. :P

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But isn't that what he's doing? By making everyone take the shot without letting them test to see if they will survive he is effectively wiping out the negatives. Only he covers himself by calling it "sacrifice".

His rationale is that he is only making the "sacrifice" accross one generation as opposed to creating a permenant situation where there is a lower class of people.
Click here if you disagree with me.
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cinder_chick
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Ranadiel
Aug 24 2007, 12:53 AM
His rationale is that he is only making the "sacrifice" accross one generation as opposed to creating a permenant situation where there is a lower class of people.

Yeah but what about the next generation? I thought only people who mated with someone with the starlz mutation could have a promicin positive kid. Even if they later inject those born promicin negative, there's no guarentee they'll survive either just because their parents did.
Firefly quote of the week:
Kaylee: Everone's got someone but me. Wash tell me I'm pretty.
Wash: Were I unwed I'd take you in a manly fashion.
Kaylee: Coz I'm pretty?
Wash: Coz your pretty.
(Hearts of Gold).
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Ranadiel
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cinder_chick
Aug 23 2007, 07:57 AM
Ranadiel
Aug 24 2007, 12:53 AM
His rationale is that he is only making the "sacrifice" accross one generation as opposed to creating a permenant situation where there is a lower class of people.

Yeah but what about the next generation? I thought only people who mated with someone with the starlz mutation could have a promicin positive kid. Even if they later inject those born promicin negative, there's no guarentee they'll survive either just because their parents did.

When a PP and a PN have a child, they only have a kid who is PP is the PN has the starzyl mutation. There is nothing that says when a PP and PP have a kid that they won't inherit the promicin(note, Isabelle did and we have no indication that Lilly had the Starzyl Mutation).

Plus the odds are quite high that the kid will have a large enough portion of the brain if both their parents did. I think that they would have at worst a 75% of being able to survive the promicin.
Click here if you disagree with me.
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AbductedWhileDriving
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Hey, guys, sorry I'm pretty late on the reviewing thing. I've noticed a lot of what could be said about everything has been said... I also noticed we're using a lot of asteriskys this episode, ha, ha.

I voted this episode was okay. It was just weird for me and a little scary. It didn't feeel like the 4400 really. I don't know. Nobody seemed to be acting like themselves! Jordan, Marco, Garrity, (the obvious ones of Tom, Cassie). I didn't like it...

I did like that funny bit with Garrity, Marco, and Tom. I think that's the first time they've played an outright joke on the 4400. (dry as it was.)

Please turn back, Tom. You're evil side is so scary!
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Keenir
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Ranadiel
Aug 23 2007, 07:53 AM
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no baby or infant, however strong in any way, knows the niceties of morality or the degrees of danger.

Because I have to get in the last word, there is no baby who has the power to make people shoot each other or themselves against their own will. :P



the Infancy Gospel.

granted, Isabelle isn't Christ.
:nod:


ps: if you have the last word, the least you could do is offer the topic a glass of water. ;)
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R2Roswell
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Wahoo, it's Friday! Expect to have my review on this epi later tonight! I am so anxious to see this episode.

(NOTE: I HAVE NOT READ ANY OF THE POSTS HERE)
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