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React to Ep. 4.09:"Daddy's Little Girl"
Topic Started: Aug 12 2007, 07:00 PM (2,945 Views)
Keenir
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dawn
Aug 16 2007, 08:21 AM
If she was able to use her ability while on anti-psychotic meds, I'm willing to bet she'll be able to use it now.


anti-psychotic meds don't remove psychosis.

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Plus, when Shawn healed that autistic kid, did he lose his ability? (Did they even say? I can't remember...)


Every one who was afflicted by the boy's unleashing of their fears, was back to normal as soon as the boy was healed.
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Keenir
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Ranadiel
Aug 16 2007, 04:17 AM

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* here's a thought -- Doyle's not seducing Tom...he's seducing her (or rather, the Marked within him is)
(pheramonally or however)

While an interesting idea, we know from that film guy that the marked don't have any powers. Plus the relationship has clearly been building(at least to me) since before Tom got Marked.


the rank-and-file don't....given Tom's role in the series, do we doubt he'd be given anything less that The Leader of all these Marked?

ps: of course, Tom might've gotten the Mark before Doyle showed up (but attention was deliberately given to it post-Doyle)...think of how often he's been in hospitals and other places where he's unconcious.
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Keenir
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cinder_chick
Aug 16 2007, 07:03 AM
Ranadiel
Aug 16 2007, 09:17 PM
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* I bet Tess' ability was tied to her mental illness....in other words, once Shawn healed her, she's as abilityless as Isabelle is.

Interesting idea, I personaly hope that isn't the case since I like Tess's power and would hate to see her lose it, but it is entirely possible.

But Tess used her ability after Shawn healed her. When they were leaving the diner Shawn said "they're not going to remember any of this right?" and Tess replies "not if I don't want them to" implying that she just used her ability to wipe their memories.


...which - sadly - suggests that Tess wasn't being honest (less than a minute before Shawn asked if everyone will remember, Tess sounded sad about how much she'd hurt people....gutting their memories isn't hurting?)

and I don't see "not if I don't want them to" as her way of saying "don't worry, I just wiped their minds of all the dancing".
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Fanwoman
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Keenir
Aug 16 2007, 07:20 PM
cinder_chick
Aug 16 2007, 07:03 AM
Ranadiel
Aug 16 2007, 09:17 PM
Quote:
 
* I bet Tess' ability was tied to her mental illness....in other words, once Shawn healed her, she's as abilityless as Isabelle is.

Interesting idea, I personaly hope that isn't the case since I like Tess's power and would hate to see her lose it, but it is entirely possible.

But Tess used her ability after Shawn healed her. When they were leaving the diner Shawn said "they're not going to remember any of this right?" and Tess replies "not if I don't want them to" implying that she just used her ability to wipe their memories.


...which - sadly - suggests that Tess wasn't being honest (less than a minute before Shawn asked if everyone will remember, Tess sounded sad about how much she'd hurt people....gutting their memories isn't hurting?)

and I don't see "not if I don't want them to" as her way of saying "don't worry, I just wiped their minds of all the dancing".

Sorry, but it sure seemed to me like that's exactly what the line meant.

Keenir
Aug 16 2007, 07:13 PM
Quote:
 
Plus, when Shawn healed that autistic kid, did he lose his ability? (Did they even say? I can't remember...)

Every one who was afflicted by the boy's unleashing of their fears, was back to normal as soon as the boy was healed.

No, they weren't back to normal. They very specifically said those people would all take time to recover, hence no Garrity for many episodes. ;)
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cinder_chick
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Keenir
Aug 17 2007, 12:20 PM
...which - sadly - suggests that Tess wasn't being honest (less than a minute before Shawn asked if everyone will remember, Tess sounded sad about how much she'd hurt people....gutting their memories isn't hurting?)

and I don't see "not if I don't want them to" as her way of saying "don't worry, I just wiped their minds of all the dancing".

The way she said it, I took it to mean that she was about to take their memories of the last 2 days.

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Nothing wrong with that at all. So should I take it you, too, are filled with apathy on this issue of Tom's love life, or are you just bored by it?


Quite frankly that story line is a little boring. Plus Im not a big fan of the boss lady. I still think she's evil.
Firefly quote of the week:
Kaylee: Everone's got someone but me. Wash tell me I'm pretty.
Wash: Were I unwed I'd take you in a manly fashion.
Kaylee: Coz I'm pretty?
Wash: Coz your pretty.
(Hearts of Gold).
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dawn
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Keenir
Aug 16 2007, 09:13 PM
anti-psychotic meds don't remove psychosis.

Not permanently, but they do change brain chemistry and produce altered states of mind -- presumably ones more closely approximating sanity.

So if Tess was able to function normally (that is, use her ability) while on medication that altered her brain physiology to something closer to a healthy state, then it stands to reason that now that her brain physiology is healthier, she should be able to use her abilities still.

Keenir
 
...which - sadly - suggests that Tess wasn't being honest  (less than a minute before Shawn asked if everyone will remember, Tess sounded sad about how much she'd hurt people....gutting their memories isn't hurting?)


No, memory-wiping isn't always harmful. Not if the memories are traumatic and could be even dangerous to those who have them.

Of what possible benefit could it be to the diner people to remember the events of their captivity? It must have been a torturous experience, dancing for what, 48 hours? on no rest and possibly -- it's not explicitly stated on the show, but I think we can fill in the blanks here: no food, no water, no bathroom breaks, etc... would you want to remember the details of that ordeal?

It's not like they won't have any memories of what happened to them. When the police come, or at the very least, when they look around at each other and realize they don't know where they've been for the last two days, they'll understand that something has happened to them. But they won't have the specific memory of Tess influencing Kevin to sear his own flesh on a hot griddle -- which I have to believe they're much the better for not having.

Plus, on a practical level, with no memories of the experience they're much less likely to be grilled indefinitely by NTAC, the police or some other authority. They can honestly say they have no idea what happened, which means less trouble for them. Also, they're spared the possibility of retaliation from other P+'s for squealing on a 4400, since they can't possibly testify against Tess.

So I think Tess' memory wipe, while definitely beneficial to her, Shawn & Kevin, was also beneficial to the diner people. They're not burdened by very unpleasant memories and they're not a target of either NTAC/the government or 4400's/P+'s.

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Keenir
 
and I don't see "not if I don't want them to" as her way of saying "don't worry, I just wiped their minds of all the dancing".


Sorry, but it sure seemed to me like that's exactly what the line meant.


Agreed. I think the implication that Tess successfully wiped the diner people's memories was pretty clear.
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Keenir
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dawn
Aug 17 2007, 07:10 PM
Keenir
 
...which - sadly - suggests that Tess wasn't being honest  (less than a minute before Shawn asked if everyone will remember, Tess sounded sad about how much she'd hurt people....gutting their memories isn't hurting?)


No, memory-wiping isn't always harmful. Not if the memories are traumatic and could be even dangerous to those who have them.

Of what possible benefit could it be to the diner people to remember the events of their captivity? It must have been a torturous experience, dancing for what, 48 hours? on no rest and possibly -- it's not explicitly stated on the show, but I think we can fill in the blanks here: no food, no water, no bathroom breaks, etc... would you want to remember the details of that ordeal?

who was the person here who said she'd happily dance in Shawn's arms? ;)


on a more serious note, imagine all of those diner patrons collapsing and being hospitalized within a day. Tess taking all their in-the-diner memories means she takes their thoughts of "I'm hungry" and "not sure I can hold my bladder much longer" and "my legs hurt from all this dancing"....so they have no knowledge of any problems with their bodies.


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It's not like they won't have any memories of what happened to them. When the police come, or at the very least, when they look around at each other and realize they don't know where they've been for the last two days, they'll understand that something has happened to them.


no they won't -- that's the whole point of missing time: the people afflicted don't know what happened, or even if anything at all happened.


of course, that assumes Tess is what we used to call a "handwavium generator" or somesuch.....given how many parts of the brain are used for memory (short-term, associated with scents, associated with sounds, etc), the odds are that one of three things happened -
* Tess got most (but not all) relevant memories from the diner folks.
* Tess got all (and then some) relevant memories from the diner folks.
* Tess got only the relevant memories from the diner folks. (this has the lowest probability)

Quote:
 

Plus, on a practical level, with no memories of the experience they're much less likely to be grilled indefinitely by NTAC, the police or some other authority. They can honestly say they have no idea what happened, which means less trouble for them. Also, they're spared the possibility of retaliation from other P+'s for squealing on a 4400, since they can't possibly testify against Tess.

So I think Tess' memory wipe, while definitely beneficial to her, Shawn & Kevin, was also beneficial to the diner people. They're not burdened by very unpleasant memories and they're not a target of either NTAC/the government or 4400's/P+'s.


:blink: don't take this the wrong way, but if I was a P+/4400 who was convinced that Normals are out to get us (and-or that there's a plot against us), why exactly would I trust a room full of Normals who claim that they don't remember anything?

or, if I was part of NTAC, how do I know the people in the diner aren't lying about not remembering?
(people do lie - and they might not always lie to protect Tess...could just as easily be to protect themselves)
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Ranadiel
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the rank-and-file don't....given Tom's role in the series, do we doubt he'd be given anything less that The Leader of all these Marked?

I'm pretty sure that the film guy said, "They don't have powers, that's not how they work." That statement is pretty definite that none of them have powers. Plus, based on what we know they simply took the device from a dead marked and put it in Tom to get him under control. That could mean that he has their grand pubbah or their janitor in him. He might be important, but they appear to only have done this to him because of how their plans were failing(Isabelle out of comission, promicin spreading like wildfire, and their cover being comprimised)

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Tess taking all their in-the-diner memories means she takes their thoughts of "I'm hungry" and "not sure I can hold my bladder much longer" and "my legs hurt from all this dancing"....so they have no knowledge of any problems with their bodies.

Except that pain isn't a one tuime signal that you have to remember constantly once it has been sent once. Pain and sourness are constantly being sent whenever you aggrivate them. So when they first recover they might not realize that their legs are about to collapse until they put some weight on their legs at which point they will notice the sourness immediatly. The people will still feel the pain, they just won't know why they are feeling it.
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Ok... I finally took a chance to stay up late and watch another ep. When you can't watch 'on time' it certainly does cause you to realize that you don't *actually* have time to watch much TV at all! I used to just turn up the ep and fuss a lot at the kids to be quiet... now I wait till I really have an hour to myself. I'll be 80 before I get caught up!... Buuuut... back to the topic at hand.

This ep had it's ups and downs... but I liked it a lot....

I like Kevin and Tess back... and I like her better.

I don't think much of 'crazy Richard'... but I do sort of like his solution... he just came off so bad. Then again, what is the right way to say "I want to you to drink this so you will be my little baby again"? I *was* starting to like growed up Izzy... and I *really* liked 8yo Izzy... but itty bitty Izzy just has a kind of 'rightness' to it.

Or it did till I read a few comments and saw this: "I wonder if she is going to recover her powers somehow because of this deaging." :o
I hadn't thought of that! But it to would seem 'right' by all the 'rules' of 4400dom and twists and turns... wow... I love it but... eek... so much for starting to like her!

Run Richard... you created a monster... again!... Or maybe not... maybe his little TK on the bloodflow trick will replace sending her to her room without supper till she internalizes right and wrong... As long as he starts it before she gets any sort of handle on her powers again. <shrug> Fun to see in any case!

Now Tom and Megan... I think I'm gonna be sick. I'm ready for him to go all evil now... so he can take her out. I just plain don't like her to begin with and I really still feel like in so many ways he's a 'married' man. I know... not really... but please... all those years of married life in his head, wife gone just six months and there isn't some kind of *stop sign* to at least warrent a *comment* about how he *can't/won't/*shouldn't* do this*? Now I hate her even more... yes, his fault/choice... I still hate her. :P

Ok... off to read more comments.



"All the world will be your enemy, prince with a thousand enemies. And whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first, they must catch you. Digger, Listener, Runner, Prince with the swift warren... be cunning and full of tricks and your warren will never be destroyed."
Watership Down


Short story: "The Tomorrow People on audio could not be renewed and the sixth season has had to be cancelled." [http://www.bigfinish.com]
The end of an era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU6QUpEYnFc
You will be missed.
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ketchupklf
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Shame on me! Staying up so late to read and respond to comments. And I’m supposed to stay up all night with my son tomorrow night. Oh well… he’ll be impressed if he stays awake longer than I do. Here goes:

“I miss R2Roswell and Kristy posting, plus Leob… R2Roswell, its going to be weird withour you and Kristy posting”

Woah… I’m so completely flattered :blush: … I feel like a bit of a ‘tag along’ from time to time… the weird old lady that plays the games all day between diaper changes… To be included with ‘The Greats’ like Leob and R2Roswell… I’ll be floating for a week.

“Why is it everyone else goes from kiss to sex in one episode except for Diana and Marco? Well, I guess Richard and Lily didn’t...nor Kevin and Tess.”

That’s it right there… real relationships take time (even if you don’t buy Marco and Diana as love they certainly have a more real relationship IMO)… this sort of ‘kiss me and I’m yours’ stuff doesn’t breed real anything.

“And what, exactly, could you do to protect Isabelle from Richard, Kyle?”

He’ll have Cassie give him the evil eye. Yep… that’ll do it.

“But this plot with Dooyle is making me apathetic about him.”

I’ve always been a bit apathetic about Tom… this has got him dropping below ‘I don’t really care about him’ real fast… I’ve tended to enjoy the ‘poor Tom’ plots way too much lately. :blush:

“I think we've all figured out by now that the ultimate goal is a promicin-compatibility test: the real question is what factor(s) determine promicin-compatibility. So throw us a bone, show, and let us know what those factor(s) are.”

Yeah… since he talked like he had made some progress I thought we were gonna get at least a little hint. I was a tad disappointed too.

“"I have an idea, but I need the opportunity to look into it" was believable.”

True, true… but I wanted him to tell us his idea! :pout: Darn scientist, not wanting to share info unless he’s sure he’s on the right track. :P

“As to the possibility of Doyle being a Marked, I'd thought it would be interesting if her Marked and Tom's Marked were spouses in the future.”

Another very cool ‘maybe’!

“Unfortunately, based on the writer's comments you shared, it would seem Doyle is no more or less than she seems.”

Yeah… darn again. :P

“I can understand the writer's logic as far as both of them being in high-stress jobs that follow them home and no one else can relate to, but Tom just doesn't come off as a casual sex for the sake of "comfort" kind of guy. Also, that doesn't excuse the fact that she's his boss! …. Of course, with the turnover rate for people in charge of NTAC, her being his boss could easily be dealt with by her getting canned.”

Agree with it all 100%…. And canning her? Heheehehe… love it.


“speaking of which she should be toothless right now....didn't pay attention to if she is though”

Why should she be toothless? Oh, wait… Because of her deaging? She shouldn’t have grown adult teeth since they would have 'reversed' away and her baby teeth should not have ‘regrown’… right? I suppose that makes sense.... I just try not to think about such things too much :hideyes: ... kills my fun. ^_^
"All the world will be your enemy, prince with a thousand enemies. And whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first, they must catch you. Digger, Listener, Runner, Prince with the swift warren... be cunning and full of tricks and your warren will never be destroyed."
Watership Down


Short story: "The Tomorrow People on audio could not be renewed and the sixth season has had to be cancelled." [http://www.bigfinish.com]
The end of an era: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU6QUpEYnFc
You will be missed.
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