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Rate Ep. 3.10: The Starzl Mutation
Topic Started: Aug 6 2006, 03:43 PM (4,795 Views)
Ranadiel
Omniscient One
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Alright I had a really nice post nearly finished when I hit backspace(thereby going back a page) elimintating the entire thing, so I'm going to do a digest version of it.

Keenir, almost all of our disagreements boil down to what the intention is behind the military group. I saw that it is to kill all the 4400, and you say it is to handle any threats that they might pose before they do anything. We aren't going to convince each other of anything different, so let's just agree to either disagree or come back to this topic later when we have more evidence one way or another.

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Maybe I picked a bad analogy (it happens)....I should've compared it to a forest fire. The more kindling, dead grass, and other flamable materials that build up {ie, the more resentments on both sides of the 4400 divide}, the worse the fire will be.

The anaogy was fine, I just disagree with the comparisson. I think that it is isn't something that is certain to happen, and by preparing for it the way he is(see above) all Ryland is doing is just lighting a match(using your forest fire anology).

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First you said my analogy wasn't valid because the conversation was about 4400s....so I pointed out that no 4400s died in the episode as a result of the mutation-killer.

Wha? I never said anything like that. :huh: I said the following:
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And the Black Death comparison would only work in no anti-Semites died of it.

I was saying that it isn't comparable because the action against the people with the mutation was sugical in nature almost, while the Black Death was anything but surgical. The Black Plague killed everyone equally. The killer in this episode didn't kill any other soldiers(except for that one guy who went AWOL, but that was him trying to escape capture and not part of his serial killings), any 4400, any NTAC agents, or any regular people. He only killed people with the muation. The comparison would be valid if the supposed conspirators were space aliens who hate humans. Although then the difference there is that Ryland in the show is definitatly real while you can argue about space aliens.

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They were a potential enemy.....for over a decade, in administrations of both political parties, the US had sent money to Afghanistan so the Taliban would continue to fight the war on drugs (and they were good at it)........yet we still had plans ready so we could fight the Taliban if we needed to

And we have plans for fighting the people with the mutation, it is called the police. Are we now going to start saying that genetic mutations are reason enough to either kill or imprison people if they have no intention of harming another person or breaking any other law?

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So far, the only infant we've seen with powers (the only child of promicin-makers), has been Isabelle.....how many Isabelle's do you want in the world?

That was the child between two promicin users that could have(and likely was) genetically altered to make her naturally evil and/or more powerful. The child of a promicin user and a Starzl Mutant could be anywhere in the power scale since we have no precedent. Same goes for a natural concieved child of two promicin users. Since we have no knowledge of how Isabelle was created, we can't say that every promicin positive baby would be just like her(they could easily be normal adjusted people that live nice productive lives).
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Keenir
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Quote:
 
Alright I had a really nice post nearly finished when I hit backspace(thereby going back a page) elimintating the entire thing,


I know that feeling.

Sorry it happened to you.


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Keenir, almost all of our disagreements boil down to what the intention is behind the military group. I saw that it is to kill all the 4400, and you say it is to handle any threats that they might pose before they do anything.


To handle any threats they might pose before & immediately after they do something.

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We aren't going to convince each other of anything different, so let's just agree to either disagree or come back to this topic later when we have more evidence one way or another.


Okay.

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Maybe I picked a bad analogy (it happens)....I should've compared it to a forest fire. The more kindling, dead grass, and other flamable materials that build up {ie, the more resentments on both sides of the 4400 divide}, the worse the fire will be.

The anaogy was fine, I just disagree with the comparisson. I think that it is isn't something that is certain to happen, and by preparing for it the way he is(see above) all Ryland is doing is just lighting a match(using your forest fire anology).


Not really...the reason Yellowstone National Park (among other places) have had so much worse fires raging out of control, these past few years, is because there's been few to no fires to get rid of the undergrowth...which means that, just before the conflaguration, there's a LOT of stuff out there that can burn.


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Although then the difference there is that Ryland in the show is definitatly real while you can argue about space aliens.


No I can't.


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They were a potential enemy.....for over a decade, in administrations of both political parties, the US had sent money to Afghanistan so the Taliban would continue to fight the war on drugs (and they were good at it)........yet we still had plans ready so we could fight the Taliban if we needed to

And we have plans for fighting the people with the mutation, it is called the police. Are we now going to start saying that genetic mutations are reason enough to either kill or imprison people if they have no intention of harming another person or breaking any other law?


;) *makes a note to send the plague lady up to your neighborhood* nah.


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So far, the only infant we've seen with powers (the only child of promicin-makers), has been Isabelle.....how many Isabelle's do you want in the world?

That was the child between two promicin users that could have(and likely was) genetically altered to make her naturally evil and/or more powerful. The child of a promicin user and a Starzl Mutant could be anywhere in the power scale since we have no precedent. Same goes for a natural concieved child of two promicin users. Since we have no knowledge of how Isabelle was created, we can't say that every promicin positive baby would be just like her(they could easily be normal adjusted people that live nice productive lives).


They very easily could....but, whether we like it or not, Isabelle is an example of what could happen -- and we as yet have no counter-examples that might calm Ryland's nerves.
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totallycharged
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Keenir
Aug 7 2006, 10:45 PM
totallycharged
Aug 7 2006, 08:44 PM
the writers supported the stereotypes that gay men are sex crazed creeps who find and pay for men in the middle of the night.


There was, in all likelyhood, going to be an outcry - no matter which cultural group the person-of-the-night was drawn from.

a black woman? no way, not unless the writers wanted to face real riots...the same for Indians, Hispanics, and pretty much any other group.


I disagree ---- if they would have chosen a white woman for this role it would have been less notoriously stereotypical and more "pc" though i hate that term
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Thanks riley and Kristen for the sig and avatar respectively, I totallyLOVE them.
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Keenir
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totallycharged
Aug 8 2006, 03:26 PM
Keenir
Aug 7 2006, 10:45 PM
totallycharged
Aug 7 2006, 08:44 PM
the writers supported the stereotypes that gay men are sex crazed creeps who find and pay for men in the middle of the night.


There was, in all likelyhood, going to be an outcry - no matter which cultural group the person-of-the-night was drawn from.

a black woman? no way, not unless the writers wanted to face real riots...the same for Indians, Hispanics, and pretty much any other group.


I disagree ---- if they would have chosen a white woman for this role it would have been less notoriously stereotypical and more "pc" though i hate that term


Ummm.....isn't the stereotype that it's the women who are people-of-the-night, streetwalkers, whatever other name one choses to use for them?

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Dianafan
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a very good episode, is not for me has the height of Gone but Richard Kahan/Marco Pacella he very present in this episode
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Skyler
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After dl'ing the episode and really whatching it a couple of times... I got some new perpectives.

Like How Ryland fears change. Tom Fears Isabelle, as well as most poeple. Then you mix in Collier... This will get interesting.
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Ranadiel
Omniscient One
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Alright I just rewatched the episode. I guess I misheard the first time because they didn't mention a knife when they were talking about how the fuy died(although it was implied since they said stabbed and he was holding a knife earlier). I still say things wrapped up way too nicely for Ryland, but I really don't have any kind of evidence. I expect to be showered with respect though if it is ever revealed that I am right on this point in the future(not that that seems likely, but still).

Oh another thing that I noticed was the last bit of conversation between Tom and Ryland which I copied down.
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Tom-"The soldiers you are creating, are you really going to use them to defend the country or are you just going to send them after the 4400?"
Ryland-"Is there a difference?"

The wording in that just screams unprovoked attacks on 4400 as the implication. However I'm sure everyone won't agree with me there.


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*makes a note to send the plague lady up to your neighborhood* nah.

You know, I haven't seen the plague lady episode(so I only have a slight idea of the specifics of her power). However they could always send her to a deserted island while working on a way to counter act her power and allow her to live safely around other people.

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They very easily could....but, whether we like it or not, Isabelle is an example of what could happen -- and we as yet have no counter-examples that might calm Ryland's nerves.

Isabelle is actually the example to calm his nerves. Remember she is working along with him and is responsible for a lot of the advances that Hasbel Corp has made. She might be powerful, but she is power that he has some control over(or at the least is on his same side).
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totallycharged
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Keenir
Aug 8 2006, 12:47 PM

;) *makes a note to send the plague lady up to your neighborhood* nah.

.

jean is dead
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Skyler
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totallycharged
Aug 11 2006, 01:39 PM
Keenir
Aug 8 2006, 12:47 PM

  ;) *makes a note to send the plague lady up to your neighborhood*  nah.

.

jean is dead

Fine we'll send the guy that can change body tempature up there. Sheesh... We got 4200 more and growing.. I'm sure we could find one with a nice weapon like power.



Sky
Let the fun continue
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Ranadiel
Omniscient One
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Skyler
Aug 12 2006, 12:15 PM
Fine we'll send the guy that can change body tempature up there.

He's dead also.
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